[medikush]

Hi everyone,

I have spent years now being involved so to speak, with clubs, patients, and many of the people involved in the movement to decriminalize medical marijuana, as well as the effort to legalize Hemp.
I helped gather signatures for 215 back in 1996. It seems strange that it was 11 years ago now, but I guess it makes sense since we really didn't see things start to happen until 1999 around Oakland, and 2003, around Los Angeles, in terms of clubs popping up like mushrooms all over the place.

If you think about it, the term Cannabis Club no longer applies. It's a misnomer, since there are hardly any cannabis clubs in existance today. What we have now are quas-legal, semi-private, "storefronts", that call themselves Cannabis "Co-ops" and "clubs".

This is tolerated by the authorities but was never written into prop 215, and was never the intentions of the authors. The intentions of 215 were to allow for private cultivation and to provide for patients to get their medicine, but did not get into exactly "how" they would obtain it, leaving the issue unresolved and pressure on counties left the door open to all kinds of possibilities in terms of allowing and regulating so called "dispensaries".

Today, there are many problems with the so called "dispensaries" that need to be addressed, and instead of addressing them, the issues are simply shelved. It's great, we're all making lots of money, shut up, dude! -- That's fine and dandy, but still, the issues need addressing.

The proliferation of criminals in the dispensary "business" is an ongoing and problematic issue. I'm not knocking gangsters, so don't get me wrong. Do what you need to, take care of your selves, your children etc...but don't turn the medical marijuana movement into a haven for gangster run business. If your a gangster, at least try to act like a businessman when it comes to your business. Take it seriously, don't use it as an outlet to commit your criminal acts, make it a good thing for your life and family. We have an opportunity to have a legitimate business in the cannabis field, why blow it by dealing with everyone like your still in High School.

The idea that a cannabis dispensary needs to be a legitimized cannabis dealing operation needs to be done away with alltogether. There is no need for anyone to make tens of thousands of dollars a month running a dispensary. It's not a business that lends itself to buying and selling cannabis in a free-market since it's only quasi-legal.

The club owners are GREEDY as hell, for the most part, and if there was not so much money in it for them, MOST of them would not be in business doing this at all. That is where the criminal element flourishes.

The need to pay bills, overhead, employees, etc, and being there is no room, for "LARGE" middlemen in this business, the clubs rely on squeezing the grower for all they can on the buying end, and gouging the patient for all their worth on the selling end. I don't buy the bullshit at all, that club owners cannot afford to cut their prices, or that they cannot afford to pay vendors more money for their product. It's a bunch of bullshit!!!! (Let's do the math)

If a dispensary buys cannabis at the price of $4000.00 per LB which is the going rate for TOP SHELF product in the bay area, the clubs resell a LB for about 55 1/8 for the same TOP SHELF meds. That's a retail value of $7,040.00, give or take some change. A typical co-op that has 25 customers per day is taking in an average of $100 from each customer, so that's about $2500.00 a day, maybe, on the average. A club with 50 customers a day takes in about $5,000.00 per day. Multiply that by the month. $75,000-$150,000.00 per month. If 40% is profit (approx) then that's about $37,000-$75,000.00 per month.

Why do I keep hearing about how dispensaries have to pay less and less money to vendors, and they keep charging high prices.....some kind of bullshit, I'll tell you.

Los Angeles is almost the same, when the math is done.

The Vendors are getting screwed and the patients are getting screwed by the proliferation of greedy business owners that really do nothing special except open up a pot shop to sell to patients. Big Fucking Deal! -- The Growers and the Patients are the important parts of the equation, yet somehow the club owners have managed to shift the balance of power away from both the growers and the patients and take all they can for themselves in the process.

What is needed is a new business model for Co-ops that wish to set themselves apart from the crowd of greedy club "storefront" owners.

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Instead of clubs buying from vendors and reselling to patients at an inflated high profit rate, which requires the layout of their own funds, and the risk that goes along with it......why not reverse the energy completely!

Try something new, instead. A whole new paradigm, for the new year, and a new way for co-ops to thrive.

The clubs could actually establish good relations with specific growers/vendors. The vendor would leave product on consignment, of course. The vendors set their own prices. If a vendor wants $(X) Amount/LB, they can get it, and their herb will sell for exactly that, to the patients. But instead of the club charging the patients retail, they will not sell to the patients at all. They will be providing a service to the vendors, by distributing their product and charging ther vendors a "fee" to collect the funds for them.

In other words, the Club charges the vendor to distribute the herb to the patients and to collect the money for the vendor. The club never sells any cannabis to any patients. (No sales = No sales Tax.) -- The Vendor gets charged a "Fee" for the ability to get their herb distributed for them. The Fee could be set at $500.00/ LB. That's 1/6 of what the dispensaries are currently making now. Yes, it's a real, genuine loss of revenue. It's so sad I could shed a tear or two. But I won't, so I can continue to bitch for little while longer.

Imagine now, the Vendors get $6400.00 for TOP Grade Meds per LB, the Vendor pays $500.00 for that LB to get distributed, leaving them with $5900.00/LB, and the patients would pay $50.00 1/8 (TOPS) for those TOP Grade Meds.

The same club, that aquires medium grade meds, would pay a Vendor $5,760 , subtracting $500, and leaving the Vendor with $5,260, and distributing the herb for the grower to the patients for $45.00 1/8, and so on.

This business model is not at all greedy, and allows for everyone to be happy, and prosper. It is not too restricting, for vendors, or for dispensaries. It makes sense, and it eliminates the need for "sales tax" as well. It also eliminates the idea and fact that a dispensary is actually selling pot to a person. It becomes much more service oriented, and legally beneficial and even safer for everyone. And not to mention how good the "patient" is ultimately treated, by not being taken advantage of, by super-greedy fat-cat big-pig middlemen.

It's too bad that dispensaries view their patients as "limited commodities" where there is a limited supply, instead of abundance, as it should be seen. There are so many madical users of cannabis, and everyone is lookingfor something BETTER, that any co-op that would employ this business model would be sure to see their business EXPLODE as they set themselves apart from the GREEDY herd. Don't let competition kill you, allow compassion to rule you instead. The results will be amazing. I can guarantee that any club that did this, would see such an increase in business that it would almost offset any losses they would incur by reducing their profit margin.

That's my plan.
Medikush

Believe it if you need it, and leave it if you dare.

[nigel]

Jeopardy theme song playing in my head...Have to devote some thought for a while....well, one problem maybe, is that it kind of puts the vendor on the hook, so if something happens, (bust, Crop failure, etc,) man, as a vendor, I would feel awfull, letting down those patients..;. If other vendors would not agree with these terms the co op may not be able to supply their patients.... also, giving "terms" to a co op "time to pay," is a very risky affair in itself. Big manufacturers give terms to retailers, but something grass roots, so to speak like this is diff. I think....Yeah, see what your saying, consignment....so if dea comes in, the vendors get screwed...dea happened just yesterday.....

Another problem, vendors, generally, live crop to crop..Income only every three months or so...Yeah perpetual crop, bs,, Total nightmare, trust me. So when crop comes in, it's time to pay all the bills..

does'nt sound un-doable at first glance though....

Jeopardy theme still rolling in my head....

[medikush]

Originally Posted by nigel

Jeopardy theme song playing in my head...Have to devote some thought for a while....well, one problem maybe, is that it kind of puts the vendor on the hook, so if something happens, (bust, Crop failure, etc,) man, as a vendor, I would feel awfull, letting down those patients..;. If other vendors would not agree with these terms the co op may not be able to supply their patients.... also, giving "terms" to a co op "time to pay," is a very risky affair in itself. Big manufacturers give terms to retailers, but something grass roots, so to speak like this is diff. I think....Yeah, see what your saying, consignment....so if dea comes in, the vendors get screwed...dea happened just yesterday.....

Another problem, vendors, generally, live crop to crop..Income only every three months or so...Yeah perpetual crop, bs,, Total nightmare, trust me. So when crop comes in, it's time to pay all the bills..

does'nt sound un-doable at first glance though....

Jeopardy theme still rolling in my head....

Mots vendors are CURRENTLY doing fronts to dispensaries, and sometimes for 2 weeks at a time, regularly...this is VERY common now for vendors....and the dispensaries are using the vendors money by doing this, and not paying them until later, although some put money away as they take it in, for that particular product, nonetheless, the dispensaries are STILL charging top dollar and not paying the vendors any better......

It's currently the state of affairs, in case you weren't aware.....it's allright, some of us have more experience with these particulars.

Thanks for the reply and for posting your thoughts .....I appreciate it.

[theirienation]

Originally Posted by medikush

Mots vendors are CURRENTLY doing fronts to dispensaries, and sometimes for 2 weeks at a time, regularly...this is VERY common now for vendors....and the dispensaries are using the vendors money by doing this, and not paying them until later, although some put money away as they take it in, for that particular product, nonetheless, the dispensaries are STILL charging top dollar and not paying the vendors any better......

It's currently the state of affairs, in case you weren't aware.....it's allright, some of us have more experience with these particulars.

Thanks for the reply and for posting your thoughts .....I appreciate it.

You have some.."interesting" points.. However, I rarely see top shelf kush at $4000 a pack unless its some master or other bullshit kush genetic. Obviously there are other strains beside kush that are excellent and cost less, however in a demand driven market, where patients only buy what will suit them, we need to bring in what they want, and that is the high quality kushes, and unfortunatly not many vendors will drop under the 5k per pack mark.. many are chargin between 5500-6000 and that is not just hearsay, that is events witnessed.. Also, you make it seem that every co-op gets meds on front, you are seriously mistaken here my friend, I have only know two dispensaries to have done that, and that was at their very beginning of opening...

I observed all of your math, and it always seems flawed in one way or another... first you speak of the high profit margins, then deliberalty not factor in all other costs associated with.. then you go on to speak of consignment deals and fronts.. fucking joke, no vendor is going to leave 10000-20000 dollars worth of product with some owners, fucking never.. they might as well pay the fucking rent and sell it themselfs...I think you are going to the wrong dispensaries.. there are many that are obviously in it for the high profits but we are seeing that fad die, because patients are not stupid, they can find high quality without paying 100 per 8th.. that is why places like HIP and FAIRFAX are going under while places like HCR and RDC are blowing up...

[morpheus]

Prices that vendors charge are certainly lower in NorCal than in SoCal. Top-shelf meds in SoCal are being offered to SoCal collectives at prices ranging from $5,000 to $6500 consistently, which makes it a little tough to believe that the collectives are the only source of greed. I certainly understand the extraordinary risks that vendors are assuming and the exceptional demand for their quality meds, but their prices have gotten a bit out of hand.

I think that asking collectives to cover their overhead from 10% of the wholesale price is highly optimistic and unworkable. I do think that patients are bearing the brunt of the crazy pricing, but the solution to this problem will only be found when collectives are allowed to become true collectives, where their patient/members are allowed to grow enough meds to meet the needs of patient/members that for whatever reason are unable to grow their own meds.

[DOC-J]

Originally Posted by gcguy

Typical Prices For La Lbs Are 5500-6400, Your Math Is So Far Off.top Notch 1/8s Are About $48 Wholesale. Even At $60 Thats $12 Gross Profit, Factor In Rent $3400 A Month,10 Employees @ 12 An Hour, Open 11 Hours Aday, 60-70 Patients A Day, %10 Of Meds Are Donated To Hospice, %8.75 Sales Tax Included, Office Supplies,health Insurance For Employees(2w Hepc,1 With Diabetes,1 W Cancer,1 Hemophiliac,astronomical Price) Etc,etc.... Now Do The Math,after 3 Months Of Being Open, Im Still In The Whole For About $150,000! So Break Out Your Abacus And Start Doin The Math.

10 employees? @ 12 an hour? the $12 I get. The more you take care of your emp. the less chance there is of them stealing from you. But 10 employees. Ive managed co-ops before and never did we have 10 employees. I think you need to work out a budget and see exactly where your cash is going. If you have one than something is amiss. I dont want to tell you how to run your co-op. Its not my place, but i think theres some things you can do to make it more effecient and actaully start to see some profit.

[medikush]

Originally Posted by theirienation

You have some.."interesting" points.. However, I rarely see top shelf kush at $4000 a pack unless its some master or other bullshit kush genetic. Obviously there are other strains beside kush that are excellent and cost less, however in a demand driven market, where patients only buy what will suit them, we need to bring in what they want, and that is the high quality kushes, and unfortunatly not many vendors will drop under the 5k per pack mark.. many are chargin between 5500-6000 and that is not just hearsay, that is events witnessed.. Also, you make it seem that every co-op gets meds on front, you are seriously mistaken here my friend, I have only know two dispensaries to have done that, and that was at their very beginning of opening...

I observed all of your math, and it always seems flawed in one way or another... first you speak of the high profit margins, then deliberalty not factor in all other costs associated with.. then you go on to speak of consignment deals and fronts.. fucking joke, no vendor is going to leave 10000-20000 dollars worth of product with some owners, fucking never.. they might as well pay the fucking rent and sell it themselfs...I think you are going to the wrong dispensaries.. there are many that are obviously in it for the high profits but we are seeing that fad die, because patients are not stupid, they can find high quality without paying 100 per 8th.. that is why places like HIP and FAIRFAX are going under while places like HCR and RDC are blowing up...

you must be talking commercial vendors dude...nobody I know has $20,000 worth of product top leave anyone.....I was talking 1/2 LB at a time, maybe 1 LB at a time. If your doing lots of pounds then you don't need "top" dollar for your herb. That's when you discount quantity. I'm looking out for the vendor, who has a little extra who needs to drop it at a co-op to re-coup some cash for their expenses.

I know people who "front" all the time. I have fronted to BPG on a regular basis, also Harborside, and the clubs in LAla land expect and want the same thing as well. Anyone who could defend the clubs in a thred like this, has GOT to be a DAMN club.....not a patient or a vendor, or a grower, that's for sure...

[medikush]

Originally Posted by gcguy

Typical Prices For La Lbs Are 5500-6400, Your Math Is So Far Off.top Notch 1/8s Are About $48 Wholesale. Even At $60 Thats $12 Gross Profit, Factor In Rent $3400 A Month,10 Employees @ 12 An Hour, Open 11 Hours Aday, 60-70 Patients A Day, %10 Of Meds Are Donated To Hospice, %8.75 Sales Tax Included, Office Supplies,health Insurance For Employees(2w Hepc,1 With Diabetes,1 W Cancer,1 Hemophiliac,astronomical Price) Etc,etc.... Now Do The Math,after 3 Months Of Being Open, Im Still In The Whole For About $150,000! So Break Out Your Abacus And Start Doin The Math.

Poor you, i'm crying for you poor babies.....

poor, poor club owners...boo hoo hoo

let me wipe away the tears....

o.k. now, I can talk.....

$150,000 huh, 3 months in business and you haven't broken even...I would say you got into it for all the wrong reasons...and maybe you deserve to go under financially....

either that or your so full of shit -- but anyways...

let's see.....all those expenses, and that is how you "justify" your high costs to your patients.....

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

take the measly $10,000 a month in expenses out of your $40,000/Month profits and ...oh, i'm so sorry your only left with $30,000/Month.

fuck off greedy club owners, go back to high school, get a diploma, and get a job doing something else then.....

If you open a club, get a small location, one security guard, 3 employees, and limit your overhead....that's why they have business school for...learning how to do these things correctly.

Don't blame everyone else, take responsibility, and blame yourselves for the problem.

[labrat]

Originally Posted by gcguy

Typical Prices For La Lbs Are 5500-6400, Your Math Is So Far Off.top Notch 1/8s Are About $48 Wholesale. Even At $60 Thats $12 Gross Profit, Factor In Rent $3400 A Month,10 Employees @ 12 An Hour, Open 11 Hours Aday, 60-70 Patients A Day, %10 Of Meds Are Donated To Hospice, %8.75 Sales Tax Included, Office Supplies,health Insurance For Employees(2w Hepc,1 With Diabetes,1 W Cancer,1 Hemophiliac,astronomical Price) Etc,etc.... Now Do The Math,after 3 Months Of Being Open, Im Still In The Whole For About $150,000! So Break Out Your Abacus And Start Doin The Math.

not whole!!! its hole H-O-L-E !! peace lab rat

[medikush]

maybe your NOT the club owner that approached me outside the Fairfax location in Venice as I was walking away from the place......

But what DID happen to me the other day is very interesting and shows a inside glimpse into the common criminal dispensary owner.....

Someone who shall remain nameless, bu twho has an office place RIGHT next door to Fairfax on Venice approached me as I was leaving the place that was closed down. He told me "I'm a club owner , I have a club in Long Beach. Show me your goods, I may be interested.

Upon entering his limo he drives me around the block (VERY SCETCHY, not recommended, but I did it anyways because I grew up in Venice and I don't give a fuck, nobody's' gonna mess with me)....He tries to low ball me, but get's on the phone after he realizes I need to get 2800 for my half LB, and i'm not budging. "Hey man I've got the FIRE KUSH here, yeah, how much, $4000.00 a half LB!!!!" -- Ten minutes later, sorry man the guy doesn't seem like he's showing and doesn't want it....I'll have to lay out my own cash...the most I can give you is $1500 for the half LB" -- Needless to say , I walked away.

Lowballin Loser dirtbag criminal...that's what the typical club owner in Lala land is like.....

That's a true story 100%, happened last week.

[medikush]

Originally Posted by gcguy

Typical Prices For La Lbs Are 5500-6400, Your Math Is So Far Off.top Notch 1/8s Are About $48 Wholesale. Even At $60 Thats $12 Gross Profit, Factor In Rent $3400 A Month,10 Employees @ 12 An Hour, Open 11 Hours Aday, 60-70 Patients A Day, %10 Of Meds Are Donated To Hospice, %8.75 Sales Tax Included, Office Supplies,health Insurance For Employees(2w Hepc,1 With Diabetes,1 W Cancer,1 Hemophiliac,astronomical Price) Etc,etc.... Now Do The Math,after 3 Months Of Being Open, Im Still In The Whole For About $150,000! So Break Out Your Abacus And Start Doin The Math.

I was also talkin Northern Co-op prices, the same could be said for lala land and down south, but the whole numbers get adjusted then. It's the same story though. High mark-up.

The club owner that employs 10-or 12 employees is not a real club owner. They are called capitalists. There is no need for such bullshit as that. Where are the 10% donations. I want to see "evidence" of this crap. Health insurance for employees. Maybe Co-ops should not have employees, and maybe they should be set up as Non-Profits or Not for Profits or some other category where their employees are "volunteers" instead. Fix the problem, it's yours not mine.

[labrat]

i know that its tiough to run a co op with all the over head and all ,and i know that you guys dont make alot of profit!!! and i know that most co op owners are on a fixed income!!! well ill tell ya what !!! today is your lucky day!!! i need a part time job!!! hire me !! and ill fix the hell out of your income!!! hahaha peace lab rat

[medikush]

Let's do some more math.....|

A grower that grows 100 plants indoors would yield (depending on how they grow) an average of 1 LB per light, if they are good, and would use maybe 6-12 lights to pull it all off. Average would be about 8 LBS maybe give or take a lb or two, but averaging 8 LBS -- 8 X 5 = $40,000 Every 2 months (-) about $10,000 in bills. That comes out to $15,000/Month and they put themselves at risk of Federal 5 Year Mandatory Minimum sentences, having over 99 plants.

The same person who runs a dispensary can have on premisis 100 LBS of pot and never face a 5 year Mandatory Minimum Sentence upon conviction.

The dispensary owner, needs not do any work at all, other than open their doors and sit back and collect money. The grower WORKS THEIR ASS OFF to produce the herb for the club or the patients, they don't sit in a chair saying "no, I'll pass on that junk, i'll offer $1000 for that, no cookies today, sorry, we'll take the ice cream though"...real hard work for any club owner....real tough get your hands dirty, work hard ethics going on here,I must say....


For that hard labor the club puts out there, they real how much now?
$30,000/Month with only 20 people a day in their doors. $75,000/Month - $150,000/Month -- Where does it end? The club owners are sitting fat-cats, not doing shit, and don't deserve a fraction of what they make currently.

Once again, I say "Fuck the greedy Big-Pig, Fat Cat Piece of crap club owners." Let em rot!


All the good club owners out there, you know who you are. Karma comes back to you.

[Phoenix_Ri5ing]

Originally Posted by labrat

i know that its tiough to run a co op with all the over head and all ,and i know that you guys dont make alot of profit!!! and i know that most co op owners are on a fixed income!!! well ill tell ya what !!! today is your lucky day!!! i need a part time job!!! hire me !! and ill fix the hell out of your income!!! hahaha peace lab rat

HA! I second Labrat's above comment; I'll work for a co-op any day; I love to help people.

PS: I may be wrong; but I think this entire conversation (the math etc discussing co-ops in this nature) is completely against the Terms Of Service for the site.

[Envy]

Originally Posted by medikush

This business model is not at all greedy, and allows for everyone to be happy, and prosper. It is not too restricting, for vendors, or for dispensaries. It makes sense, and it eliminates the need for "sales tax" as well. It also eliminates the idea and fact that a dispensary is actually selling pot to a person. It becomes much more service oriented, and legally beneficial and even safer for everyone. And not to mention how good the "patient" is ultimately treated, by not being taken advantage of, by super-greedy fat-cat big-pig middlemen.

The Feds dont care who sells the pot, they look for drugs and money, thats what they want. I dont think state tax was ever a problem. This business plan does make a lot of sense and it would be interesting for someone to try but as far as legal protection by implimenting this, well it doesnt seem to offer anything in that respect. There is still going to be a piggy bank full of drugs and money where the deal can stop by fill a couple vans and continue on without reading your little business plan.

[medikush]

Originally Posted by Envy

The Feds dont care who sells the pot, they look for drugs and money, thats what they want. I dont think state tax was ever a problem. This business plan does make a lot of sense and it would be interesting for someone to try but as far as legal protection by implimenting this, well it doesnt seem to offer anything in that respect. There is still going to be a piggy bank full of drugs and money where the deal can stop by fill a couple vans and continue on without reading your little business plan.

this is not about escaping the wrath of the feds, it's more about creating a better plan for everyone to thrive.....

but, what is seldom known, is that the most lucrative and successful enterprises that would normally be illegal, have beene made legal by re-structuring the business model.....

Taxes are often avoided by large corporations this way, legally, .....just by changing things around, and that which was previously taxable is no longer taxable....what is also little known, is that the crimes revolve around the tax.