[MadRiverTurtle]

Hi All,

Last week weedtracker made an announcement regarding the posting of med photos. If you didn't read it (please do), the gist of the message was that we decided to prohibit the posting of med photos in the forums- all due to an increase of shilling associated with photos and their reviews (and by the way, receiving free meds to take photos IS shilling. You may not be getting cash but you're being paid off).

Well, obviously it was a crappy idea. The thing is, efforts to curb shilling is quite a balancing act for us. It's not advantageous to block positive contributions to the board due to the tomfoolery of disrespectful users and the Co-Ops they shill for. On the other hand, situations like this tend to have a snowball effect. It only takes one person to get a trend going and before ya know it, the forums are filling back up with fallacious threads (hence the current situation). And no one likes a shiller. Over the past few years we've worked rather hard to try to keep the board free of crap. And we've received praise for this due to the opinion that we have more legitimate reviews and info compared to other MMJ sites.

In cases such as this we know that shills and Co-Ops will always find a way to bypass the rules to continue their deceptive advertising tactics. The fact is, some policies and procedures work better than others. So we are coming to you, the non-shillers, to ask you what you would like us to do about it. I know some of you may say "I can spot the shillers and know to ignore them". Well, please keep in mind that we have an average of 95 new user sign ups a day and they don't know to ignore it. At least not yet :).

I've included some possible solutions to this problem in the poll above, some of which were submitted by considerate users. If you have an idea and vote "other" let us know what your idea is. We welcome your input and want to make this work for all. If you don't want to post you can always send a PM to a mod/admin or go to the support center.

With that being said, we can take constructive criticism but if your post turns into a long diatribe about how you hate us or if it contains violations of the TOS then follow the link in my sig. You can yell at me there. Meaning, if your post contains the phrase "fascists bastards" or "mod nazis" then yeah.... don't hit submit. We're in this together and tearing each other down is counterproductive. When Wters come together to tackle a problem and make things better, they're a force to be reckoned with.

With Love,
mrt

[KJ'S Caregiving Delivery]

it wont come up with the message?

[Angeltyreal]

I don't know if there is a legitimate way to without prohibiting regular trackers. Freedom taken for security given, thats the trade-off. I think that is the best way though - pictures. Because people can always say whatever they want about a review, but pictures don't lie. Well.. unless they are lying about which strain it is... but how the hell would we be able to notice that kindof thing v.v.

I undertsand your dilemma completely.. and would love to help if there is anything I can do. Post reviews in the forums, in the review section, or write them up on bathroom stalls, you guys say the word:)

EDIT: Didn't see the poll, but I would do either without the reviews.. or with that special title thing, so people will know

OR! Simply allow those who have a known status (Gold leaves +) to be the only ones to "officially" review anything?

P.S Fascist bastards!

[firebug]

I think a combination of the two could work

"Direct all photo threads to review section (status quo)"
"Identify photographers by placements in unique 'promoter' usergroup"

It would take forever to go through all the photo review threads...

Or a patient submitted photo forum, with a poll for photo of the day/week/month and a lil prize, to promote the pictures to be posted in the forum you want it them in, rather than in the co-ops forum "shilling" I guess

The lil prize could even be donated by a co-op, random co-ops could give prizes as a way to help the forums and a lil advertisement at the same time... IDK Could be a bad idea...

I dont know... I'll keep thinking

Originally Posted by MadRiverTurtle

Hi All,

Last week weedtracker made an announcement regarding the posting of med photos. If you didn't read it (please do), the gist of the message was that we decided to prohibit the posting of med photos in the forums- all due to an increase of shilling associated with photos and their reviews (and by the way, receiving free meds to take photos IS shilling. You may not be getting cash but you're being paid off).

Well, obviously it was a crappy idea. The thing is, efforts to curb shilling is quite a balancing act for us. It's not advantageous to block positive contributions to the board due to the tomfoolery of disrespectful users and the Co-Ops they shill for. On the other hand, situations like this tend to have a snowball effect. It only takes one person to get a trend going and before ya know it, the forums are filling back up with fallacious threads (hence the current situation). And no one likes a shiller. Over the past few years we've worked rather hard to try to keep the board free of crap. And we've received praise for this due to the opinion that we have more legitimate reviews and info compared to other MMJ sites.

In cases such as this we know that shills and Co-Ops will always find a way to bypass the rules to continue their deceptive advertising tactics. The fact is, some policies and procedures work better than others. So we are coming to you, the non-shillers, to ask you what you would like us to do about it. I know some of you may say "I can spot the shillers and know to ignore them". Well, please keep in mind that we have an average of 95 new user sign ups a day and they don't know to ignore it. At least not yet :).

I've included some possible solutions to this problem in the poll above, some of which were submitted by considerate users. If you have an idea and vote "other" let us know what your idea is. We welcome your input and want to make this work for all. If you don't want to post you can always send a PM to a mod/admin or go to the support center.

With that being said, we can take constructive criticism but if your post turns into a long diatribe about how you hate us or if it contains violations of the TOS then follow the link in my sig. You can yell at me there. Meaning, if your post contains the phrase "fascists bastards" or "mod nazis" then yeah.... don't hit submit. We're in this together and tearing each other down is counterproductive. When Wters come together to tackle a problem and make things better, they're a force to be reckoned with.

With Love,
mrt

I don't see how it will change things. There will always be schills and you have no way of controlling shills or those that recruit them other than WT peeps reporting them. So you need proof. Which is almost impossible when some peeps are offered incentives to post.

You are asking for patients to be honest. That's a tough sell when playin' MMJ gangsta is more fun than creating a unified WT patient group based on caring for each other. I doubt it's the patient's idea to shill. An offer to shill comes first, so maybe that's where you should start?

Jus' my 99.9 cents.

So I vote Other. Whatever that is. I think you are trying to control the wrong group.
But since there is ad money involved, are you going to risk the income loss by ditching a coop caught doing this? Shilling isn't a "patient issue" it's a partnership started by whomever has the incentive. Not just the recipient of the "bonus".

You can't reinvent the wheel everytime new users join WT. That's always changing. But the coops don't come and go as often. Food 4 thought.

That's the other 1/10th cent.

Creating another user class just makes another group that accepts shill behavior as being OK. It doesn't foster honesty or patient protection, it just allows the practice to be legitimized.

Oh well.

---- EDIT --- I was beat senseless by angry monkeys for posting this without giving a solution. oops.. I think coops that want pix can get a camera, just like the photo peeps got:
Kodak C913 EasyShare 9 MegaPixel Digital Camera $88 at Fry's Electronics.

[Angeltyreal]

Originally Posted by Compassion Queen

pics don't lie but good lighting and photography skills can make most any flower look desirable

Ohh I completely agree.. and I have first hand seen a picture of a strain that wasn't the same in-store. (: Thankfully that dispensary does not exist anymore, but we can't be sure that it won' happen again. And honestly? That is one of the worst things because some people, thinking they already saw the original strain, will just ask to pick up large amounts without looking.

[The Urban Spaceman]

Originally Posted by Compassion Queen

pics don't lie but good lighting and photography skills can make most any flower look desirable

actually pics can lie - the people on my planet call it Photoshop!

[alohakid]

Originally Posted by Compassion Queen

pics don't lie but good lighting and photography skills can make most any flower look desirable

Or vice versa....I started posting pics because I saw bad pictures posted that didn't truly represent what the flowers looked like. Being the (anal) perfectionist that I am, I wanted to truly represent the images. Plus my lens are all telephoto for action and sports photography so for me it was like a challenge to do close ups with my equipment.

I think the shills are pretty obvious to me, but to many maybe not, so I do see where weedtrackers coming from.

On the other hand, Do I care if certain trackers are shilling with pictures?? Not so much. Right now I have a decent income so I can afford my meds, but maybe others can't, so if this is a good way for them to barter to get some, oh well.

It adds to the quality of the forum IMO, to have the visual of pictures, as well as experienced trackers you can PM for more info if needed. It makes it too complicated to have to go to menu forums etc.

[Avocado]

My objective has been to post accurate images of beautiful buds, from many clubs. Unfortunately, the "Patient Review Section" is not the the greatest medium for posting/viewing high quality images.

Now, based on the response I get from WT'ers (Pos Rep)....there are MANY who enjoy those pics and benefit from them. I am not a MMJ expert....thats why my reviews are short and sweet...I let the pictures do the talking.

I'm glad to see WT re-visiting this policy....it needs to be changed.

OK...I'm not sure what a "Unique User Group" is...but if thats what it takes...then sign me up.

I can only speak for myself, but at the end of the day......no schilling, no deceptive advertising, no bait and switch.....just beautiful pics of some killer buds for EVERYONE to enjoy........

PEACE.................

[MadRiverTurtle]

will the unique user group allow for the user to post in other co-op forums or will it block it like with the co-op user group?

I don't know, we never got that far. I do know that they would not be permitted to write reviews on that club and would probably be listed in the forum header or have a sig that identifies them as a promoter or photographer. But I partly agree with this....

Creating another user class just makes another group that accepts shill behavior as being OK. It doesn't foster honesty or patient protection, it just allows the practice to be legitimized.

I partly agree. But OTOH it would still open up the possibility that some people, people that haven't shilled, can start to help out with their local club in a way that they couldn't have before. Removing the task of having to upload photos frees the co-op of being able to do other things. Not a big deal, just something I've noticed from CS and phone calls.

Originally Posted by 99.9%

I don't see how it will change things. There will always be schills and you have no way of controlling shills or those that recruit them other than WT peeps reporting them.

I know. And that makes me a sad

I doubt it's the patient's idea to shill. An offer to shill comes first, so maybe that's where you should start?

Actually, there's a history of people going around and marketing themselves to co-ops for things exactly like this, usually in the form of written reviews. I can name a few banned users that were really good at this but... I digress ;).

I think coops that want pix can get a camera, just like the photo peeps got:
Kodak C913 EasyShare 9 MegaPixel Digital Camera $88 at Fry's Electronics.

^ I know, right? :)

Bah....

[Medpatient]

Hey MRT,

How about a confirmed Schill forum, so when those schills are confirmed, you restrict their permissions to only be able to post in that forum and then the rest of the users can also check it out to see who is a confirmed schill.

[MadRiverTurtle]

lawl, that's the problem. can't quite confirm anything and if we could then that would follow the policy of the TOS- banned from forums all together, co-op and user :)

[Medpatient]

Originally Posted by MadRiverTurtle

lawl, that's the problem. can't quite confirm anything and if we could then that would follow the policy of the TOS- banned from forums all together, co-op and user :)

yea thats true, didnt think about how you would confirm completely.

[Angeltyreal]

I think I know the best way to find the shills =O!!

Do nothing 9 45.00%

View Poll Results<-----

[Jeffster]

I don't know that I understand the problem fully, nor all the implications of any imposed solution, but I went for the "promoter" group idea. If it's all in the same area, then it may have more of a "buyer beware" presence to it? Or something like that. It's been a busy morning, and I'm still trying to finish up my morning coffee now and fully wake up.

[LivnLifAgn]

I'm the only-- Other..vote!

I'll be happy to delete All Me Pics and start Over!.....Clean the Slate!... ....Dang!, I never seen any of that there profit Shilling!...Be it Glass, Grass, Or...A....nything!

[OGUNIT]

I couldn't help laugh at the thread title . not that its funny cuz its not . Im thinking put the pics in the review section , inst that what it was set up for initially ? My only gripe is the pic size is too small in the review section . but other then that I think pics of flowers should be posted in other forums then the club itself , like what are u smoking now ? the art section etc , but dont make it where u got it like a commercial , just the strain name . no club name.keep the bud shots coming .

[ladyknight]

Originally Posted by 99.9%

I don't see how it will change things. There will always be schills and you have no way of controlling shills or those that recruit them other than WT peeps reporting them. So you need proof. Which is almost impossible when some peeps are offered incentives to post.

You are asking for patients to be honest. That's a tough sell when playin' MMJ gangsta is more fun than creating a unified WT patient group based on caring for each other. I doubt it's the patient's idea to shill. An offer to shill comes first, so maybe that's where you should start?

Jus' my 99.9 cents.

So I vote Other. Whatever that is. I think you are trying to control the wrong group.
But since there is ad money involved, are you going to risk the income loss by ditching a coop caught doing this? Shilling isn't a "patient issue" it's a partnership started by whomever has the incentive. Not just the recipient of the "bonus".

You can't reinvent the wheel everytime new users join WT. That's always changing. But the coops don't come and go as often. Food 4 thought.

That's the other 1/10th cent.

I believe it is both...some patients and some co-op's.

Risk the income? We have banned both patients and co-op's when we have had the proof. I agree it is a partnership, therefore both are banned. That is also in the TOS.

Weedtracker was started with a vision. That vision has grown. The passion for a safe mmj community is our heart, not our pocketbook.

We are trying to find a solution and thank everyone for contributing to this thread and to the community.

[mkylky]

i tried using the proper review section to post pics/review, but it seems it is an area very uncommon to many WT's. and can be quite tricky at first.

i enjoy being able to just throw up a quick pic i snapped. i'm sure the majority of people that take photographs of their meds do it simply because ITS great! this wonderful plant is so photogenic, there are so many different varieties, and types, and i think we as patients just like to have the pictures for both memory's sake and to share with other patients so they can see what they're getting.

i think the type of threads started dedicated to a few pictures of strains recently picked up should be minimized.

maybe many of the photographers should start their own dedicated thread, sorta "pics of my current stash of meds" type dealy, sorta like Schieze's oil thread. and this could allow WT's to share their pics without seeming like they're "promoting" or "shilling" for a certain coop as long as they're not going into a certain coop's forum and saying "look what i can get down the street, your patients should come here"

i myself just like putting up a pic in a coop's thread, say they just got in a new strain, and i happen to try it before other WT's, i usually put up a pic and mini review of the strain/med in the current coop's thread so other patients can get an idea of the medication. this is IMO what part of weedtracker is all about.

i agree pictures can make or break a user's decision to visit a certain coop, but i feel just because i post pics of meds from a coop I fully support and would recommend via word of mouth in an instant doesn't mean i'm a promoter or shiller, just a very satisfied patient and consumer. just because the pictures is sort of "advertising," its equivalent to recommending via word of mouth IMO. sorta letting the pics do the talking.

i know there are always a few that can spoil the bunch, but i'm positive the abundance of patients who take pics of their medication to share do it just to simply share with other patients, and have no alternative intent of capitalizing on any incentives.

so i chose the option to leave as is. any decision WT administrators decide on, i will support though and follow through with.

[Au_Hunter]

While I voted I'll need to consider the options and review the other posts also since I am an end user and do not wish to impede on any co-ops/posters.

I think I understand the issue and perhaps it is one more of perception than actual shilling as I for one have a one usual co-op I vist most often and a couple I'm verified at, but I have had very few problems due to shills.

Perhaps it is my skepticism or my trusted friends, perhaps a bit of both, but shilling or the silly attack reviews have no effect upon my shopping habits although I do appreciate the effort to weed (no pun intended) out those lacking ethics.

I enjoy the photos and some have excellent photographic skills using minimal equipment, but every batch of medicinal Marijuana I purchase has a variety of different mature flowers, so a single photo is hardly representative of a batch of any strain...

It isn't like purchasing a vehicle that is mass produced, so a single bud is hardly representative, so I'm leaning towards the review pics option in the co-ops review area.

Shills must be very careful to not offend their benefactor by posting reviews and pics from other co-ops, lest they promote another co-op and reduce the business from the originator of free meds.

It must be an exclusive agreement or shilling is ineffective and counter productive since the gifter makes less while giving away meds.

In my not so humble opinion anyway.

[stanley]

I just dont know what to suggest.

I do know that dishonest people will find a way to get around every protection HONEST people can dream up..... dammit...

I dont want to be labeled as a "promoter"... I am not. Rather than be labeled as a promoter I would just stop posting pix.

I take my pix because I am a camera nut, and they are technically challenging to do really well... I am still learning...

For me, other than gratitude to the coop/collectives that provide me access to my meds I have no real reason to NEED to post in their forums....

So a simple working solution to me is to do just what has been suggested, I will post my pix in the patient art section WITHOUT identifying the source OR providing a review...

But..... and there always seems to be a but......

I KNOW folks like to see the current offerings from the coops/collectives... MOST pictures dont lie (a nod to Spacey and photoshop) and they DO tell a powerful story (pix are worth a thousand words, right?)....

So, like I said, I just dont know what to suggest.

[superface13]

I mainly look at photos to see if it's a beautiful picture or not. When I'm at a shop, I look at and smell the bud, if not test a little snapper, before I buy anyways. I've only been to shops with $50 caps and haven't been disappointed yet. I say let the market work itself out.

[ZENITH]

I usta post pic's....didnt get anything...so...mabie i should have bought a better rig.

also when i went back to the coop...all the bud was gone.

post pics..people buy..no more bud left.


so screw it..no more pics from me..it always screwed my chance of getting more dank buds...

For crying out loud
- now how am I supposed to advertise for my club,.

[OakSmokeMJA]

Originally Posted by mkylky

i myself just like putting up a pic in a coop's thread, say they just got in a new strain, and i happen to try it before other WT's, i usually put up a pic and mini review of the strain/med in the current coop's thread so other patients can get an idea of the medication. this is IMO what part of weedtracker is all about.

To me, that is what WT is all about. I have posted pix and reviews for the past year on strains from various clubs I've visited, if the strain is worth it.

Originally Posted by superface13

I mainly look at photos to see if it's a beautiful picture or not. When I'm at a shop, I look at and smell the bud, if not test a little snapper, before I buy anyways. I've only been to shops with $50 caps and haven't been disappointed yet. I say let the market work itself out.

There is no more complex or beautiful flower in the world, and I love to see good pictures of good buds.

Originally Posted by Yoda

For crying out loud
- now how am I supposed to advertise for my club,.

Yoda, you are worded well, you don't NEED no stinking pictures to advertise for your club!:slaugh:

Shills are shills with pictures or not.

Originally Posted by 99.9%

I was beat senseless by angry monkeys for posting this without giving a solution. oops.. I think coops that want pix can get a camera, just like the photo peeps got:
Kodak C913 EasyShare 9 MegaPixel Digital Camera $88 at Fry's Electronics.

here come the angry monkeys for me now!