[MadRiverTurtle]

By William H. McMichael - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Jan 6, 2009 15:09:47 EST

The Purple Heart will not be awarded to service members suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, the Pentagon confirmed Monday.

“It’s not a qualifying Purple Heart wound,” said Defense Department spokeswoman Eileen Lainez, although she added that “advancements in medical science may support future re-evaluation.”

The decision, reached Nov. 3 but not made public until now, followed months of evaluation by military and outside officials. That evaluation was spurred when Defense Secretary Robert Gates was asked at a May press conference whether he would support awarding the Purple Heart to PTSD sufferers.

Gates said the idea was “clearly something that needs to be looked at.” His undersecretary for personnel and readiness, David S.C. Chu, decided against making such awards after conferring with the Pentagon’s Awards Advisory Group, which includes “awards experts” from the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Joint Staff, the military services, the Institute of Heraldry and the Center for Military History, according to Lainez.

Gates concurred with that decision, Lainez said.

The decision was first reported Monday by the Stars and Stripes newspaper.

The Purple Heart “recognizes those individuals wounded to a degree that requires treatment by a medical officer, in action with the enemy or as the result of enemy action where the intended effect of a specific enemy action is to kill or injure the service member,” Lainez said.

PTSD “is not a wound intentionally caused by the enemy from an outside force or agent, but is a secondary effect caused by witnessing or experiencing a traumatic event,” she said.

According to the National Institute of Mental Health, PTSD is an anxiety disorder that can develop “after exposure to a terrifying event or ordeal in which grave physical harm occurred or was threatened.”

The affliction is one of several reported in high numbers among veterans returning from duty in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both marked by long tours and high exposure to combat trauma.

Lainez listed several additional factors in the Pentagon’s decision:

•Based on the definition of a wound, “an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent,” other Purple Heart award criteria, and 76 years of precedent, the Purple Heart has been limited to award for physical wounds, not psychological wounds;

•PTSD is specifically listed as an injury not justifying award of the Purple Heart in Title 32 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

•The requirement that a qualifying Purple Heart wound be caused by “an outside force or agent” provides a fairly objective assessment standard that minimizes disparate treatment between service members. Several members could witness the same traumatic event, for instance, but only those who suffer from PTSD would receive the Purple Heart.

•Current medical knowledge and technologies do not establish PTSD as objectively and routinely as would be required for this award at this time.

•Historically, the Purple Heart has never been awarded for mental disorders or psychological conditions resulting from witnessing or experiencing traumatic combat events — for example, combat stress reaction, shell-shock, combat stress fatigue, acute stress disorder, or PTSD.

Lainez stressed that the Pentagon “is working hard to encourage service members and their families to seek care for PTSD, by reducing the stigma and urging them to seek professional care.”

Service members diagnosed with PTSD “still warrant appropriate medical care and disability compensation,” she said.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/0..._ptsd_010609w/

That is totally messed up!

almost 'insane' to not appreciate those who have put their life on the line for our freedom,.

[BUDDHA808]

That is just wrong!! I'm not a service member but I believe that it is an injury that occurs in result to enemy action. Just my opinion. I would like to hear from anyone who has served on what they think.

[SpirituallyEnlightened]

thats fair.

[chloepoe]

Originally Posted by MadRiverTurtle

Perhaps this is me being too paranoid or conspiracy-theorist-like, but could part of the deniable be rooted in the fact that PTSD is more common than what the military would like to acknowledge? And in doing so we continue to highlight how very damaging and life-disrupting war is to our service members? Just a thought

I absolutely have to agree with you on the deniablity factor! My guy is a Dessert Storm Vet and he suffers from PTSD. The thanks he got for his service and now compromised mental health was a few trips the the psychiatrist and some anti-anxiety/depression drugs that ultimately did more harm than good. There is absolutely no medical help out there for inactive Vets, they sort of get left to the wayside once they are no longer risking their lives for their country or they are too sick to continue to doing so. If it is a mental health issue then the government will simply say this was a defect in the individual's personality to begin with, not something that was brought on by service to their country, and then they will stop paying their medical bills pretaining to mental health issues.

Poe

[xgreencrackx]

Originally Posted by MadRiverTurtle

Perhaps this is me being too paranoid or conspiracy-theorist-like, but could part of the deniable be rooted in the fact that PTSD is more common than what the military would like to acknowledge? And in doing so we continue to highlight how very damaging and life-disrupting war is to our service members? Just a thought

your not being paranoid, your probably close to the truth. Everyone that I've known that is a veteran has suffered from nightmares/flashbacks/panic attacks from certain noises....war is a fucked up thing

in all honesty though, i doubt most veterans will care that they wont receive a purple heart for PTSD, most of the medals they actually keep get locked in some box where they cant see or think about it.

I think anyone with half a mind would have it snapped the first day in combat,.
A good friend of mine served 4 years in Vietnam, R Winters, a very good friend of my sister and my weed dealer too for a few years,.
anyway he told me of some stories I'll never forget or repeat,.

It's both BS and a nightmare, and there's no escape..

I always put myself in the other persons shoes,.
bad habit I know,..

The thing that makes me angry is the welcome home they received from the Americans, almost, sorta like this issue,. a slap in the face,.

Any normal person would be traumatized..

That's all -

[gfunk]

well motherfucker. i just wrote a big post and my internet went down before it went through....ill try to sum it up. PTSD and the purple heart, i have both. both from operation iraqi liberation (OIL). ptsd is a complex issue and everyone is affected by it in different ways. a lot of vets who come home dont seek help because we dont think anything is wrong with us, and shit, if my buddy doesnt have it, then ill be damned if i do. its a messed up way of thinking but its the truth. soo i was living in buffalo ny(go sabres) when i first got out. i have nerve damage in my back, knee, and ankle. i also have TBI(traumatic brain injury). the docs in the marines gave me a farewell gift of about a months worth of oxis to help me cope with the pain before i got to the VA. needless to say, i smoked as soon as i saw the old crew from before the service(and 4 years of not being able to) so i go to the va to file claims and benefits and all that fun stuff. im open to them about everything, i mean shit theyre my docs, so i tell them about weed and they tell me they cannot give me the meds i should have because i smoke weed?! they said i need to piss clean before its gonna happen. i even talked to the medical director about it saying, well shit i dont have any meds for this obvious pain so i take it upon myself to heal(for lack of a better word) myself. i asked if there was anyway i could get a month supply, piss clean a month later and then get a full script. they wouldnt budge. so i was curious as to how i would relieve the pain and anxiety that overwhelms my life for this month of not smoking.... they had no options for me. anyway, sorry to get off topic. i went back a few months later after getting pain meds from some freinds, to complain. thats when they sent me to a mental health doc for ptsd.

i think it would take too much time and effort to award purple hearts for ptsd. if they put that effort toward their facilities, many of us would be much more grateful. and contrary to popular belief, wounds DO NOT need to visible to get a purple heart. i got one of mine for a concussion.

i strongly believe the VA should look into MM as an alternative source of medication for many of their patients. suffering from terrible pain throughout my body and ptsd, i can honestly say that MM is the only true way i feel better. i have 13 active prescriptions that the VA prescribed for various medical reasons, mostly pain and PTSD. in my opinion the side effects are too much on all these and if i could just find one med. that could do it all.......:partysmile:


ok sorry for the babbling on in the post, im new to this site and pretty

[MadRiverTurtle]

Thanks for sharing your story! Was hoping to hear from some vets on this.

And welcome to the site, glad you joined us!

[stanley]

VN vet here. VA treats me for PTSD, and pays me based on that and other service connected disabilities.

Getting treatment from the VA is not easy, it takes patience to get the system to do ANYTHING, and patience is not something most who have PTSD have a lot of...

The VA counts on vets getting frustrated and dropping out of the system. Some of the folks that need treatment the most get absolutely none because of this institutional policy.

I get all my medical treatment thru the VA. They treated my cancer, and my heart attack... I do still see a private oncologist...for second opinions and MMJ recommendation.

They also "treat" me for my mental health. The VA is VERY variable depending on the LOCAL staff at your clinic... if they are experienced, you might actually get some help.... if not, you wont get jack.... Expect to get jack, you wont get disappointed that way.

Their general approach to mental health issues is pretty straight forward.... If pharmaceutical drugs cant fix your problem...yer screwed. And they LOVE to roll pills at ya.... The more the merrier....

If a modern SSRI wont help, they dont mind using the old ones...who cares about the side effects.... and if one drug doesnt do it, lets try four or five...

The policy appears to be to drug a vet till he is numb, physically and emotionally.... Drug him till he stops complaining, or drops out of the program.

If you jump thru enough hoops, you can get into some group sessions with other vets, they might actually help some folks....

and, if you lose it altogether and hold off the swat team for about six hours with a gun made out of a bar of soap (and swat doesnt shoot you) you might be able to swing a lovely stay at the Club VA, for an intensive 3-6 month PTSD rehab.... a program with about a 20% success rate.....

Oh, and GOD FORBID you should ever mention MMJ at the VA.... after all they are a FEDERAL institution, and we all know how the feds feel about real medicine... as opposed to the poison they sell...

The costs of war are immeasurable. We can all see and understand the blown up buildings, and the dead and wounded people.... We can see that every night on the news if we look for it...

But the cost to the service member just begins with his/her time in uniform. A vet will spend the rest of their lives trying to put the experiences of war in perspective, trying to be able to live among folks that cant understand what they have seen, felt, and done, just to survive another day.

That search for the proper perspective on their experiences will involve their entire family, their friends, their communities.

The search isnt always passive, and it isnt always peaceful.

Too many wives and girl friends end up paying the price of a vet's experiences, too many kids grow up with a parent who is struggling to deal with the baggage they picked up in the service.

And, the suicide rate among returning vets is going thru the roof.

Sorry if I seem a bit bitter. I have made my peace with my life, and the prices I have payed... I would gladly do it again.

But it rips my heart out when I see this generation of vets being treated so poorly, and forgotten as quickly as mine.


Edit:

As to the Purple Heart. I have to say I agree with the policy. Purple Hearts have pretty much come to represent bleeding for your country.... I PERSONALLY think the medal criteria should stay pretty much like it is... I am rated as disabled by service connected PTSD by the VA, and I dont have one, and I dont think I deserve one.

but that is STRICTLY MY PERSONAL OPINION... and I know many vets who are on both sides of the argument.

Second Edit: After re-reading gfunk's post, I need to make myself a little more clear on the "policy" about Purple Hearts.... I said I agreed with the old "policy" that you had to bleed to get a Heart... and that isnt really what I was trying to say.... I was trying to say that PHYSICAL injuries had always been the standard for the Purple Heart as opposed to MENTAL or PSYCH injuries....

Soldiers have suffered from the sights and sounds and memories of war since they first banded together to bash each other with clubs.... There is evidence that Greek soldiers returning from those epic battles we read about in school suffered from PTSD... During World War I it was called "shell shock"..... during WWII "battle fatigue".... my personal favorite name though was what they called it after our American Civil War-- A Soldiers Heart.

[FireWater420]

Wow.. I read all these and i'm glad I didn't say anything to my doc today at the VA. Haha, this is crazy too that I found this today right after I was about to tell my doc. I wasnt sure how they were going to take it me saying that MM helps my ptsd and shoulder/back problems. I agree that the VA should take MM into concideration in giving it to patients that really need it or to vets that are just seriously tired of getting pills shoved down their throats. As the purple heart goes, I dont think I should get it for ptsd just because when I go to physical therapy I see alot of disabled vets that are missing limbs.... I makes me feel as if my ptsd doesn't even compare to what some of these guys went through. Much Love.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by FireWater420

As the purple heart goes, I dont think I should get it for ptsd just because when I go to physical therapy I see alot of disabled vets that are missing limbs.... I makes me feel as if my ptsd doesn't even compare to what some of these guys went through. Much Love.

And that feeling---"my ptsd doesnt even compare"--- is a CLASSIC example of what is known as survivor's guilt. (we vets always seem to feel that our brothers had it worse than we did...)

Thank you for your service.

Welcome to the club.

oh, and just do yourself a favor and remember that the VA, its staff and its facility are all FEDERAL.

California state laws regarding medical marijuana are not applicable when you are on VA property... that means in the clinics, hospitals....or even the parking lot.

I have been told (but I cannot vouch personally) that they have used drug dogs in the parking lots to sniff parked cars...........

When you drive thru the gates its like going to a foreign country.

[FireWater420]

Thanks for the info stanley. I will deffinatly not bring my meds with me when going to the VA. The Long Beach VA isnt that scetchy... but who wants to take a chance?
Thanks for the love!

[mcheramie]

I am new to this site and new to MMJ. But....The ruling for the Purple Heart is correct. I earned a PH for being wounded 5 times on the same day. I lost vision in my right eye, I lost the hearing in my right ear, I have ringing in my ears 24 hours a day, a hole in my right thigh, my back and shoulders are jacked up, a couple of messed up ribs and I have PTSD. When I go to physical therapy in LaJolla I am ashamed of my PH. Yes, PTSD is serious and a pain to deal with, but when you see dudes with missing limbs you relize that a PTSD does not rate a PH.

[noisytaoist]

There have been some very nice posts in this thread. I, too, have service-connected problems, physical and otherwise. I don't agree with issuing the PH for PTS(D). It is not a vet-exclusive condition, and is probably far more prevalent in the general population than many might suspect, and not just among the police and emergency response personnel.

I'm just coming out of my paranoia enough that I might actually seek help from the VA, despite my extreme lack of trust in the V.A. and in the gov. I have an irrational (or perhaps not) fear of western medicine and western docs, too - esp. after having some blood work done a couple of years after separating. I also know, to some extent, just how dirty our gov. works, having been part of some dirty shit myself, and it led me to leave my beloved Marine Corps. My wife has been on me from day one to seek help, but I just never felt that my problems were their concern (or that they would actually be concerned). I signed up, freely; nobody was twisting my arm. I even signed a few waivers that stated that neither I nor my descendants would/could seek compensation from the gov. for the action(s) that I was about to take, both in regards to vaccines and in regards to actual operations. I signed disclosure contracts, too.

I really didn't expect to survive any of the actions/wars that I took part in, or I never would have signed anything. Hell, I didn't even plan on surviving, and at times... I still wish that I had not. My kid brother followed me in, and he was the one who took two to the head. He should have stayed inside of his tank (that dumbass), and not have attempted to help out those Iraqis - not that I have anything at all against Iraqis.


Here is a link regarding the "pain contract" that might interest any of you who have been handed one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhFIIM4lZIw

I spoke with Michael yesterday, at length. What a pleasant conversation it was, too! Despite being from different branches, we have some very similar experiences, as well as viewpoints. I learned a great deal from him, and I really admire the enormous amount of work that he has done on behalf of the vet community - esp. in regards to the use of MMJ. I'll be helping out his org. and ASA in So Cal with vet-related issues, and I'm looking forward to it.

We should start a sub-group under WT Health and Wellness for vets. It might be very therapeutic.

[mcheramie]

Worse than PTSD and the physical injuries for me is TBI (Tramatic Brain Injury). My mind goes a mile a minute, but I can't get my thoughts out and sometimes have slurred speach. My wife said it is like dealing with a stroke victim.

All the new body armor is great, but it has caused something they never delt with before, TBI.

[Sgt Greenbud]

I have PTSD/TBI and crushed L4-L5. I have tried everything under the stars and the only relief I get is from medical cannabis.

I recommend getting a prescription for Dronnabinol (generic Marinol) from the VA, since it settles my nervous stomach, in theory. The point is this is a synthetic THC. Therefore it will give you a documentable false positive. You will pop on EVERY piss test.

While PTSD is not; TBI is a purple heart.

[stanley]

I have to be honest here...

the longer this thread gets... the more it weighs down on my heart.

war should be the burden of the old ...

I did my time in Southeast Asia in the 70's. But I didnt have to do four or five tours....

I swore after I came back the next generatio of GI's would not be treated like I was...

Well, they arent.

They are just flatly, simply....ignored.

[gfunk]

hey fellow vets and patients alike; i stumbled across this earlier today and thought id share.

http://stash.norml.org/michigan-va-a...cal-marijuana/

i wont elaborate as you guys can read it for yourselves. the VA as a whole needs to do this, not just in states with MMJ laws

[Billyboy88]

Hello all,

I served in the army from 2000-2004, and now suffer from PTSD, and a serious ankle surgery I had in the army near the end of my term (major reconstructive surgery) causes me a great deal of pain - despite the fact that I can't feel half of my foot! I did two tours in Afghanistan and 1 tour in Iraq.

I served with Alpha Company 2/75 Ranger Regiment, and I won't lie, I saw and experieced some absolutely unbelievable things. I can't even begin to explain the feelings in my head when I have what I call my "moments". There are times when my moments last 5-10 minutes or as long as 3-5 hours. It is a completely helpless feeling when you have no control over your mind and what it is doing when I know that before the army I never ever had any sort of mental problems. I dont blame the military or the government for my condition. I chose a unit that would put me in the front lines. I joined to "see the shit". I am proud of myself for my accomplishments in the service, I led a team of 4 other guys through Iraq and Afghanistan and we all came home safely - not only from my actions but the hard work and intestinal fortitude of my guys.

I lost a few friends overseas and saw many injuries. I do not feel that I deserve a purple heart for my condition. In fact I don't want one. Still to this day I double check windows when I pass them. I listen at doors before I open them. I do not consider myself to be racist but when I see men (or women) who look like the Iraqis and Afghans I fought against and also the ones that I gave food and water, I have moments.

MMJ is the only thing that can help me in these times. The VA put me on depression medication that just turned me into a zombie. I would rather live in fear than do those drugs again.

Someone earlier said that trying to get help thru the VA takes a while and it is so true. I also believe that the system is set up in such a way as to make patients eventually give up. The VA is not a business, at least its not designed that way. And some of the workers are very good people, but there are many who are only there for the job. I myself was thrown out of the VA hospital in Palo Alto for getting in a heated argument with one of the counselors. (I won't go into that here)

In the end there are many people suffering from PTSD. Service related or not. If you do not suffer from ptsd it is a very hard explanation of its hardships. One thing is for sure tho. I know that almost eveyone of my brothers who served overseas, have come home and have smoked to find relief from the riggors of Ranger Elite Infantry.

The VA will IMO never fund a MMJ policy. Federal statutes that we are all aware of prohibit this. The only thing we or I can do to help others is offer any assistance in getting VA claims started. Like I said the system is terribly organized and can be quite infuriating at times. So please if you have any questions I am not an expert, but I have dealt with the VA many times and persistence is the only way to win.

This was supposed to be just a quick reply but obviously you can tell this is a touchy subject with me.

PH for PTSD no
MMJ for PTSD I have found no other alternative than suffering

Thanks for listening
Billy

p.s. if you have any questions please feel free to PM me

[DreamSmoker]

Thank God I saw this thread...
I am so glad you all found out About MMJ....
I can say to you from experience that It is life saving for PTSD..... Sure as Hell beats sitting in an Chair for months like ZomBIE.... God Damned Phyco Meds.....
I found that the most Potent MMJ works well.... Shuts down, symptoms like Memories that just pop in anytime and fuck up your day....
God Bless all of you.
Peace, Pot, Freedom .....

[Billyboy88]

Yes I have found the heavy indicas help me fall asleep and sleep through the night. Nightmares are a constant thing and I jsut recently started trying hash, and have found that I have them less frequently now.

I am almost embarrased to say but, I sometimes have to leave the bedroom and sleep in another room than my wife. She has told me that on a few occasions I have attacked her in my sleep. I have no recollection of these events, and I am almost scared to sleep in the same bed as her. It can be quite destructive on a relationship.

Good luck all
smoke one for the fallen soldiers

[H.P.R.C STAFF]

Originally Posted by MadRiverTurtle

By William H. McMichael - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Jan 6, 2009 15:09:47 EST

According to the National Institute of Mental Health, PTSD is an anxiety disorder that can develop “after exposure to a terrifying event or ordeal in which grave physical harm occurred or was threatened.”

The affliction is one of several reported in high numbers among veterans returning from duty in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both marked by long tours and high exposure to combat trauma.

Lainez listed several additional factors in the Pentagon’s decision:

•Based on the definition of a wound, “an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent,” other Purple Heart award criteria, and 76 years of precedent, the Purple Heart has been limited to award for physical wounds, not psychological wounds;

•PTSD is specifically listed as an injury not justifying award of the Purple Heart in Title 32 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

•Current medical knowledge and technologies do not establish PTSD as objectively and routinely as would be required for this award at this time.

•Historically, the Purple Heart has never been awarded for mental disorders or psychological conditions resulting from witnessing or experiencing traumatic combat events — for example, combat stress reaction, shell-shock, combat stress fatigue, acute stress disorder, or PTSD.

Service members diagnosed with PTSD “still warrant appropriate medical care and disability compensation,” she said.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/0..._ptsd_010609w/

Mental traumas or disorders often do not get the attention they deserve... I suffer with severe anxiety and it upsets me that people have a hard time recognizing its effects on a person like me, simply because they cannot see it like a physical wound. In my opinion, mental/psychological conditions are sometimes as or more severe as visible physical illnesses. Certainly these conditions deserve attention and respect from people...hope science helps us all understand things better soon!!:001_wub:

[DreamSmoker]

Originally Posted by Billyboy88

Yes I have found the heavy indicas help me fall asleep and sleep through the night. Nightmares are a constant thing and I jsut recently started trying hash, and have found that I have them less frequently now.

I am almost embarrased to say but, I sometimes have to leave the bedroom and sleep in another room than my wife. She has told me that on a few occasions I have attacked her in my sleep. I have no recollection of these events, and I am almost scared to sleep in the same bed as her. It can be quite destructive on a relationship.

Good luck all
smoke one for the fallen soldiers

I know there is no complete cure but you keep up the Cannabis Therapy... You will use it and need it maybe for life.. The People closest to you will see a difference after time and so will you...
Those Lost feelings of joy will come in time.. The nightmares will become few, and peace will follow My friend..

[gfunk]

billy boy, whats up fellow vet. i have the same types of problems as you, but i wont get into detail. fallujah in 04 was enough to fuck my head up for life. ive come to the realization is this short time ive been messed up from war, that as far as PTSD is concerned, there is no cure. The VA will give you handfuls of pills to, like previously said, turn you into a zombie. i feel the best way to to deal with it is to just accept it and move on. i also have vivid "flashbacks" but i try to stay medicated as much as possible so it doesnt happen, but theres too many "triggers" to avoid them all. be proud of what you did, look out for fellow vets, and never forget our brothers who gave all.

in my honest opinion, and i by no means am a doctor or expert, but nothing works better for me than MMJ. i was on 13 pills at one point and the side effects and feelings are just too... not normal.