[TiQeLReSu]

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

Yeah, no one, except for his advertisers.

That only enraged people, he garnered even more support after that.

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by stanley

I surrender BrattonBasher....

But as a parting thought for you....

Instead of the "Responsible Republicans" banding together to refute a bullshit poll, spun out by a democratic party polling company, published on a notoriously left wing democratic web site..... Instead of Republicans wasting their time on lies and distortions....

Maybe YOU BrattonBasher, as a RESPONSIBLE Democrat should stand up and tell YOUR party you are tired of the bullshit games, with their trumped up polls, and THEIR extremists.

Sword cuts both ways BB, and I really dont think you see that all the time.

This is nothing but politics at its worst. Once more, the fucking crooks have us at each others throats, arguing about minutiae when we should be talking about the fact that Obama ISNT getting us out of Gitmo on schedule, that hs is slow on ending the war in the middle east, and that his fiscal policies are radical and untried (look, that may be a good thing, but we need to be talking about that, not Limbaugh, or Huffington)

Clean your own house before you clean mine, OK?

I'm not a poll guy, and never have been. I even started a thread about how easy it is to manipulate them. Lets take this poll for example. For argument sake lets inflate the shit out of the over 50% number. Lets say 30%. If 30% of polled Republicans think ACORN stole the 2008 election thats just freaky. If 20% of polled Republicans think ACORN stole the 2008 eletion thats just freaky. It's not the poll that is of note to me, it's the utter gullibility of a large section of our country that actually believes the bullshit that Fox News spews out. As far as Obama goes, I am disappointed in some areas like the wars, but at least he is bringing more honesty and less politics than Mr. Bush did IMHO.

As far as media goes, yes the Huffington Post leans left, but they are honest and often post negative things about Obama and the Democrats. I take everything with a grain of salt.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

I'm not a poll guy, and never have been. I even started a thread about how easy it is to manipulate them. Lets take this poll for example......<<snippage>>........ It's not the poll that is of note to me, it's the utter gullibility of a large section of our country that actually believes the bullshit that Fox News spews out.

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

I am truly amazed at the things people believe to be true. An actual majority of folks in one of the two major political parties think ACORN stole the 2008 Presidential election .

You are absolutely right about "polls" by politicians. You no doubt took statistics in school. You know that between the skilled use of statistics, and very careful wordsmithing of the questions on a poll, you can make virtually anything true.

And yet, BrattonBasher, here you are, knowing what you know about polls....and you write:

An actual majority of folks in one of the two major political parties think ACORN stole the 2008 Presidential election

You go on to register your disgust at the gullibility of the folks...

It's not the poll that is of note to me, it's the utter gullibility of a large section of our country that actually believes the bullshit that Fox News spews out.

But----you are the one quoting the poll. And not quoting it from Faux News, no, quoting it from that bastion of correct thinking, Arianna Huffington... After telling us you dont BELIEVE polls, you go right ahead and quote one as the basis for your outrage at the Republicans, at Faux News, you condemn them for not speaking out against the lies... You, using sources even you yourself admit are piss poor, go right ahead and fan the partisan flames, all the while condemning the other side for the same thing....

You are better than this.

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by stanley

You are absolutely right about "polls" by politicians. You no doubt took statistics in school. You know that between the skilled use of statistics, and very careful wordsmithing of the questions on a poll, you can make virtually anything true.

And yet, BrattonBasher, here you are, knowing what you know about polls....and you write:

An actual majority of folks in one of the two major political parties think ACORN stole the 2008 Presidential election

You go on to register your disgust at the gullibility of the folks...

It's not the poll that is of note to me, it's the utter gullibility of a large section of our country that actually believes the bullshit that Fox News spews out.

But----you are the one quoting the poll. And not quoting it from Faux News, no, quoting it from that bastion of correct thinking, Arianna Huffington... After telling us you dont BELIEVE polls, you go right ahead and quote one as the basis for your outrage at the Republicans, at Faux News, you condemn them for not speaking out against the lies... You, using sources even you yourself admit are piss poor, go right ahead and fan the partisan flames, all the while condemning the other side for the same thing....

You are better than this.

. For argument sake lets inflate the shit out of the over 50% number. Lets say 30%. If 30% of polled Republicans think ACORN stole the 2008 election thats just freaky. If 20% of polled Republicans think ACORN stole the 2008 eletion thats just freaky. It's not the poll that is of note to me, it's the utter gullibility of a large section of our country that actually believes the bullshit that Fox News spews out.


The above is my reaction to your post. You attack me and my credibility based on what I have previously said about polling. My point is that ANY number of Republicans or ANYONE that believes that ACORN stole the 2008 election is freaky. That is my "basis". Enough about me, since you seem to be pretty sure about my motives and ideas.

What do you think Stanley? Do you think this poll is 100% wrong? 50% wrong? Do you think alot of people believe the Fox News ACORN propaganda, or a small amount? That is my point. Just the fact that anyone believes that ACORN can get at least 9.5 million fraudulent votes to count scares the shit out of me.

[alleycat]

Wow..this is actually really sad if they believe this, especially after the 2000 election fiasco. The Republicans should be trying to find a candidate to run in 2012, not screaming and yelling about a fair election in 2008 in which they lost. They are becoming more and more like a far right lunatic fringe party.

Lose the far-right religious wackiness and the crazy neo-con stuff and maybe some people would consider voting for the GOP again. (Not me, although I'd vote for a social liberal, fiscal conservative.)

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by alleycat

Wow..this is actually really sad if they believe this, especially after the 2000 election fiasco. The Republicans should be trying to find a candidate to run in 2012, not screaming and yelling about a fair election in 2008 in which they lost. They are becoming more and more like a far right lunatic fringe party.

Lose the far-right religious wackiness and the crazy neo-con stuff and maybe some people would consider voting for the GOP again. (Not me, although I'd vote for a social liberal, fiscal conservative.)

What I am getting at is just this. The fringe of the Republican party is dominating the discourse, and they are trying to purge out the moderates. McCain before he started kissing fringe butt used to be a social liberal and fiscal conservative, and now alot of Republicans think he is the problem, not the solution.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

What do you think Stanley? Do you think this poll is 100% wrong? 50% wrong? Do you think alot of people believe the Fox News ACORN propaganda, or a small amount? That is my point. Just the fact that anyone believes that ACORN can get at least 9.5 million fraudulent votes to count scares the shit out of me.

A lot of people think a lot of things. Doesnt mean that it represents any kind of mainstream attitude.

Eazy and his tin-foil hat buddies believe Obama is the genetic offspring of Egyptian Pharaohs, put in office by some vast hidden Masonic conspiracy. And he has LOTS of buddies, buying their "facts" in the Enquirer at 7-11, or watching the news on YouTube.

How much credence should I put into their beliefs?

Does the fact that a biased poll can find fringe extremists who hold a particular belief bother me?

Not in one tiny little bit.

It does bother me that intelligent people can somehow extrapolate a push button telephone poll that connected to AT BEST 630 actual people who DIDNT vote for Obama--- yeah, 630 out of more than 59 MILLION------ AND CLAIM TO REPRESENT THE THINKING OF A WHOLE POLITICAL FACTION.

So, BrattonBasher, here is what I think. I think the democrats commissioned a poll, I think they were 100% accurate in reporting the responses they sought to make the point they intended to make. I dont believe the poll has ANY statistical validity, and I believe the entire thing was constructed to fan the partisan flames, not to educate, nor to move the political debate forward.

You condemn Fox news for their shitty bias, and turn around and hold up Huffington....

[manny1]

well of course they are going to say he didnt win THEY'RE REPUBLICANS. i am so glad that i registered as a 3rd party....yeah i know....but the way i see lets put a 3rd party in office, tax 15% across the board or whatever is deemed reasonable and get this country back on track.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by manny1

well of course they are going to say he didnt win THEY'RE REPUBLICANS. i am so glad that i registered as a 3rd party....yeah i know....but the way i see lets put a 3rd party in office, tax 15% across the board or whatever is deemed reasonable and get this country back on track.

The flat tax system is one of the worst ideas ever. Not even worth commenting on. Next.

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by stanley

A lot of people think a lot of things. Doesnt mean that it represents any kind of mainstream attitude.

Eazy and his tin-foil hat buddies believe Obama is the genetic offspring of Egyptian Pharaohs, put in office by some vast hidden Masonic conspiracy. And he has LOTS of buddies, buying their "facts" in the Enquirer at 7-11, or watching the news on YouTube.

How much credence should I put into their beliefs?

Does the fact that a biased poll can find fringe extremists who hold a particular belief bother me?

Not in one tiny little bit.

It does bother me that intelligent people can somehow extrapolate a push button telephone poll that connected to AT BEST 630 actual people who DIDNT vote for Obama--- yeah, 630 out of more than 59 MILLION------ AND CLAIM TO REPRESENT THE THINKING OF A WHOLE POLITICAL FACTION.

So, BrattonBasher, here is what I think. I think the democrats commissioned a poll, I think they were 100% accurate in reporting the responses they sought to make the point they intended to make. I dont believe the poll has ANY statistical validity, and I believe the entire thing was constructed to fan the partisan flames, not to educate, nor to move the political debate forward.

You condemn Fox news for their shitty bias, and turn around and hold up Huffington....

You are the Republican, not me, so you are more qualified than I am to decide if the fringe elements of your party are a concern. While they do not appear to be a large concern of yours, alot of us Democrats and Independents are frightened by them. These elements appear to be quite gullible to alot of us, so when they buy into these wacked-out theorys it is not difficult to project that they will continue to eat up more bullshit as we go along, and there is no guarantee that some in the fringe of the fringe will not act out in a bad way. But hey, since it was Huffington that published this particular example of the fringe's mentality, we should not give it "ANY statistical validity", right? Gee it's going to be so difficult to find any other examples of the behavior, values, and beliefs of the right wing fringe. OK Stanley, I'll keep telling myself it's just a tiny amount of lovable eccentrics like Eazy that must have gotten exposed by some biased media. Yeah.

[VooDoo Chile]

Perhaps this would do better with it's own thread. But Imma post it here anyway. BB mentioned that the ideologically extreme minority within the Republican party seems to be dominating the discourse. But if ya look at the health care bill, the Republican party somehow manages to dominate the Congressional discourse despite their minority status. Why is that? Is it because Democrats remain committed to pursueing bipartianship, to their detriment? Or is it a consequence of the Republicans willingness to come together as a unified voting bloc?

Thoughts? Comments?

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

Perhaps this would do better with it's own thread. But Imma post it here anyway. BB mentioned that the ideologically extreme minority within the Republican party seems to be dominating the discourse. But if ya look at the health care bill, the Republican party somehow manages to dominate the Congressional discourse despite their minority status. Why is that? Is it because Democrats remain committed to pursueing bipartianship, to their detriment? Or is it a consequence of the Republicans willingness to come together as a unified voting bloc?

Thoughts? Comments?

My take: The Democrats have watered down this bill so much by putting every single thing the "conservative Democrats" have asked for and more that the damn thing should just sink. All this and not even a guarantee of a yes vote for debate or for the bill. It's disgusting. If there is nothing to compete with the health insurance monopolies there will be no relief for the people or small businesses. The corporations win, the people lose. No change.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

My take: The Democrats have watered down this bill so much by putting every single thing the "conservative Democrats" have asked for and more that the damn thing should just sink. All this and not even a guarantee of a yes vote for debate or for the bill. It's disgusting. If there is nothing to compete with the health insurance monopolies there will be no relief for the people or small businesses. The corporations win, the people lose. No change.

Thanks BB. It's too early in the day to curl up in a ball 'n sob, though.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

You are the Republican, not me, so you are more qualified than I am to decide if the fringe elements of your party are a concern.

Why? They are exactly what you describe, a fringe element.

Just like the extreme left--the commies or anarchists that occupy the extreme left of the democratic party.

Are they a danger? You are a democrat, you tell me.

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

While they do not appear to be a large concern of yours, alot of us Democrats and Independents are frightened by them.

Must be terrible to live in fear. Especially fear of a media created hype.

There has been a long and healthy history of political dissension in this country BB, and you know it as well as I do. The hippies/yippies burned down banks and schools in the 60's while protesting the war. MILLIONS of dissidents marched in the streets.

And lookie here, we survived.

So what you are afraid of seems to be anything you dont agree with.

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

These elements appear to be quite gullible to alot of us, so when they buy into these wacked-out theorys it is not difficult to project that they will continue to eat up more bullshit as we go along, and there is no guarantee that some in the fringe of the fringe will not act out in a bad way.

Yeah, we have had a real problem with that here in the country, havent we. Exactly HOW many of the fringe have "acted out in a bad way" so far BrattonBasher?

How far do you want to play that straw man argument?

And, believe me BrattonBasher, to those of us in the center, some of you folks out there on the left look pretty damn gullible as well....

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

But hey, since it was Huffington that published this particular example of the fringe's mentality, we should not give it "ANY statistical validity", right?

Didnt you go to great lengths just a few posts back telling me how poor "polls" were as sources of info?

Didnt YOU acknowledge the fact that skilled pollsters can get ANY result they desire?

So why should I give this poll, constructed by the democrats to serve a propaganda purpose, published on a propaganda website ANY real weight?

Are you now saying that indeed that poll DOES represent the entire Republican Party?

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

Gee it's going to be so difficult to find any other examples of the behavior, values, and beliefs of the right wing fringe. OK Stanley, I'll keep telling myself it's just a tiny amount of lovable eccentrics like Eazy that must have gotten exposed by some biased media. Yeah.

You can go on as long as you like thinking that these spin-doctor generated polls mean anything. I will never understand why.

So, BrattonBasher, shall I live in fear because the ultra left liberal faction of YOUR party may "act out in a bad way"?

Shall we lock up the hippies/yippies/anarchists of the extreme left with the Birchers/Nazis of the extreme right?

Shall we carefully squash all dissension because someone might "act out in a bad way"?

Got another straw man to bring up??

[BrattonBasher]

When you sleep with dogs, you end up with fleas. When the fringe element takes over the Republican party and they end up nominating a teabagger for POTUS, it is not going to be me crying Stanley, I 'm going to be the one laughing all the way to the voting booth. I will feel some sympathy for moderates like you, but I will have to remind them that they had a chance to speak up, but did not. I do applaud Huckabee because he recently spoke out against the constant hatemongering of Obama and every single thing he does.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

When you sleep with dogs, you end up with fleas. When the fringe element takes over the Republican party and they end up nominating a teabagger for POTUS, it is not going to be me crying Stanley, I 'm going to be the one laughing all the way to the voting booth. I will feel some sympathy for moderates like you, but I will have to remind them that they had a chance to speak up, but did not. I do applaud Huckabee because he recently spoke out against the constant hatemongering of Obama and every single thing he does.

And, I find it illuminating that you are spending so much energy worrying about the Republican Presidential Candidate for 2012-----and it isnt even a full year into President Obama's term.

I find it illuminating that you have chosen not to acknowledge the GROWING unhappiness among the DEMOCRATS about the policies of President Obama.

While the rank and file Democrats are already questioning the commitment Obama really HAS to the changes he pledged, you are worrying about who the fringe elements of the Republican Party MIGHT run in 2012.

Why is that BrattonBasher?

Could it be that you will do ANYTHING to deflect that growing stream of DEMOCRATIC resistance to Obama?

You bemoan the fact that those damn Republicans are "dominating" the health care debate---why is that BrattonBasher? Could it be that the Democrats are splintered, directionless? Could it be that Pelosi (ptui!) is a SHITTY "leader" in Congress?

Could it be, that the realization has come over the less politically sophisticated that Obama is just another politician, not a messiah?

[Sidartha]

glen beck cries on tv. haha

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by stanley

And, I find it illuminating that you are spending so much energy worrying about the Republican Presidential Candidate for 2012-----and it isnt even a full year into President Obama's term.

I find it illuminating that you have chosen not to acknowledge the GROWING unhappiness among the DEMOCRATS about the policies of President Obama.

While the rank and file Democrats are already questioning the commitment Obama really HAS to the changes he pledged, you are worrying about who the fringe elements of the Republican Party MIGHT run in 2012.

Why is that BrattonBasher?

Could it be that you will do ANYTHING to deflect that growing stream of DEMOCRATIC resistance to Obama?

You bemoan the fact that those damn Republicans are "dominating" the health care debate---why is that BrattonBasher? Could it be that the Democrats are splintered, directionless? Could it be that Pelosi (ptui!) is a SHITTY "leader" in Congress?

Could it be, that the realization has come over the less politically sophisticated that Obama is just another politician, not a messiah?

LOL If you would just allow your rose colored glasses to gloss over some of my posts you will see I am quite disappointed in Obama in alot of ways. But thanks for the caps and the good laughs. Since you used the term "messiah" we can all see where you truly are coming from. I love how you acknowledge the bipartisanship Obama has offered in the healthcare debate with speculation that it's about weakness and "shitty" leadership. You just proved my point that any time Obama tries to be fair he is met with resistance and ridicule. Have a nice afternoon tea!

[69ER]

[stanley]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

I love how you acknowledge the bipartisanship Obama has offered in the healthcare debate with speculation that it's about weakness and "shitty" leadership. You just proved my point that any time Obama tries to be fair he is met with resistance and ridicule. Have a nice afternoon tea!

Ya kill me, really, ya do.

Now, suddenly, those damn Republicans dominating the health care debate is really Obama's bi-partisanship.

Which is it BB, positive or negative?

When the Republicans are in the media, its domination. But, when it suits your purposes, its bi-partisanship.

WOW.

Look in the mirror BB, YOUR rose colored glasses are slipping....

You know damn well I have not been an Obama basher. You know damn well I have said, consistently, give the man a chance. You know damn well that I have said, REPEATEDLY that I hope and pray America gets a LEADER, not just another President.

BrattonBasher, I am not the only one who has commented on this forum about your blindness to your own bias. You are very quick to condemn me and those who disagree with you to being Obama bashers, blinded by hatred....

OK, but you seriously need to take a step back and re-evaluate your own bias.

You know I have a great deal of respect for you. We both know we are never going to change each others mind.

So, lets agree to disagree on politics, and agree completely that 4:20pm is rapidly approaching-----and preparations MUST be made.

[VooDoo Chile]

C'mon dudes. We all know literally everyone is biased. Ain't no such thing as an unbiased observer.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

You just proved my point that any time Obama tries to be fair he is met with resistance and ridicule. Have a nice afternoon tea!

A little examination of President Obama's first year, from that noted hotbed of extreme right-wing Obama bashers, the NEW YORK TIMES.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/us...1&ref=politics

News Analysis
No Walk in the Park: For Obama One Year Later, It’s the Slog of Governance
Damon Winter/The New York Times


By PETER BAKER
Published: November 3, 2009

WASHINGTON — For a president elevated to power on the back of history, the tears and euphoria of Grant Park feel like a thousand years ago. It has been just one year, of course, since Barack Obama’s election, a year since that moment when supporters felt everything was possible amid lofty talk of “remaking this nation” and determined chants of “Yes, we can.”

Some White House aides are wistful for the days right after Mr. Obama won office, when everything seemed a lot simpler.

A year later, as a few smaller elections yielded a more critical judgment, the hope and hubris have given way to the daily grind of governance, the jammed meeting schedule waiting in the morning, the thick briefing books waiting at night, the thousand little compromises that come in between. The education of a president is complicated, and as Mr. Obama has spent the last 12 months learning more about wielding power, his country has learned more about him.

Given the enormousness of the crises he inherited and the scope of the economic package he pushed through in his early weeks in office, it might seem odd to suggest that the hardest and most defining choices are only now confronting Mr. Obama.

But as he reaches the endgame in his campaign to remake the health care system and determines whether to escalate the war in Afghanistan, he will have to decide how much he is willing to lead, how much of the political capital earned in Grant Park he will expend to push a nation outside of its comfort zone.

The tough calls could help fill in the emerging picture of just what kind of president Mr. Obama has become. So far, it is safe to say he is an activist with an appetite for transformative ideas even as he avoids defining them, or himself, too sharply.

He is a study in dichotomy, bold yet cautious, radical yet pragmatic, all depending on whose prism you use. He has discovered that the oratory that proved so powerful on the campaign trail does not as easily move votes on Capitol Hill or stir souls in the Kremlin. His faith in his ability to bring people together has foundered in a polarized capital, as has his interest in trying.

After tackling the deepest recession in generations, Mr. Obama now presides over an economy finally growing again but still bleeding jobs and piling on debt. He looks likely to get a health care program through, an achievement that has eluded presidents for decades, and yet none of the options for Afghanistan offer any guarantee of success. Then, beyond those issues loom Iran, climate change, Guantánamo Bay, immigration and financial regulations, among others.

“The central question that emerges after these months is can he make it all work?” said Lee H. Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman who in recent years helped lead commissions on the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and the Iraq war.

“These problems look simpler when you’re talking to an audience like that” in Grant Park in Chicago, Mr. Hamilton said. “But they’re much harder than that. I think he’s learned that governing is harder than campaigning, and I think he’s learned it with a vengeance.”

In the White House, the wistfulness for the simpler days is palpable. “The day was just suffused with emotion and hope and warmth,” David Axelrod, Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, recalled about Election Day last year. “But it is an emotional peak that you can’t maintain day to day as you do the business of government. The challenge is to maintain that degree of idealism and optimism as you work through the meat grinder.

“Everything about the politics of Washington works against hope and optimism and unity. So you have to push against that every day, understanding that it’s going to be an imperfect end result.” He added: “That night was sublime. And much of what goes on in Washington is prosaic. Or profane.”

In the process, the romanticized, Hollywood-buffed image of Mr. Obama, captured in the HBO movie “By the People” that premiered Tuesday night, has given way to a more conventional picture, of a politician who inspires and disappoints, energizes and irritates. The promise of a different way of doing business has at times looked to many like politics as usual.

“He continues to be a very smart, energetic, charismatic figure that the American people like,” said Representative Jeb Hensarling of Texas, a leading Republican lawmaker. “Clearly I don’t think he inhabits the lofty pedestal he occupied before the election. People are looking at this and thinking, ‘If we voted for change, this isn’t the change we wanted, or this is too much change.’ ”

Or not enough, depending on the view. “If it’s all give and no take, it begins to wear on you,” said Representative Raúl M. Grijalva of Arizona, a leader among liberal Democrats who think Mr. Obama has been too eager to compromise. “Some of the base has begun saying maybe the expectations are too high; maybe this is a first-term agenda. But the base is starting to say, Where are we?”

Little frustrates advisers to Mr. Obama more. They point to a series of mostly quick but largely overlooked victories that advanced Democratic priorities stalled for more than a decade: on children’s health care, tobacco regulation, hate-crimes penalties and pay equity, to name a few.

At the same time, they set the goal of passing legislation on not just health care but also on climate change and the financial industry by the end of the year over warnings that they were pushing too much, too fast — a goal that everyone agrees is now out of reach.

“They’ve seen that Congress can’t digest everything they want to do,” said Steven A. Elmendorf, a lobbyist who was the top aide to former Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri when he ran the House Democratic caucus. “The political system can’t take it. Health care has proven to be bigger and tougher than they thought. It has taken most of the oxygen in the room. You can’t do everything.”

Mr. Obama has rethought not just strategy but substance. As a candidate, he supported renegotiating the free trade agreement with Mexico and Canada, opposed a legal requirement that individual Americans have health insurance and promised to bolster the war effort in Afghanistan. As president, he has left the trade pact alone, embraced a health insurance mandate and after an initial reinforcement to Afghanistan is now rethinking his whole strategy there.

For the moment, at least, he has also largely abandoned the promise of postpartisan bridge building after running into early and unified Republican opposition to his spending plans. It was an idea that his more seasoned Washington advisers, like Rahm Emanuel and John D. Podesta, never held out much hope for but went along with until the president figured out for himself that Washington is too divided.

In the end, naturally, every president has to learn for himself. “You’re never prepared to be the president of the United States until you’re actually president,” said Valerie Jarrett, a senior adviser to Mr. Obama.

William A. Galston, a former White House adviser to President Bill Clinton, said Mr. Obama had yet to define his identity in a vivid way.

“He likes big goals more than bright lines,” said Mr. Galston, who is now at the Brookings Institution. But, he said: “The question of who he is is still very much up for grabs. He genuinely wants to be a transformative president. He doesn’t think he was elected to do small things. Some things may end up being small, but it won’t start out that way.”

[gopers]

Yes, I am still waiting for the bipartisanship and transparency

Maybe in a couple of years?.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by gopers

Yes, I am still waiting for the bipartisanship and transparency

Maybe in a couple of years?.

Obama ain't the one gettin' in the way o' bipartisanship.

[chez]

Originally Posted by TiQeLReSu

GB stands for all that was/is wrong in America..
I watch the pr!ck everyday so I know what my crazy family and friends are thinking about..
He is gaining momentum and nobody seems to be challenging him...

I watch G.B. too, you have to know, like you say what the crazies our thinking about. I can't believe what he is getting away with. Somebody is going to go after OUR PRESIDENT because of him and his kind. If this was Bush he was going after like this he would be off the air and in jail for treason.(He should be in Jail for TREASON) Look what happened to Bill Maher and he just spoke the truth and ABC cancelled one of the BEST shows on TV. Thank "The Power that Be" for HBO.Keith Olbermann is great too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrattonBasher
My take: The Democrats have watered down this bill so much by putting every single thing the "conservative Democrats" have asked for and more that the damn thing should just sink. All this and not even a guarantee of a yes vote for debate or for the bill. It's disgusting. If there is nothing to compete with the health insurance monopolies there will be no relief for the people or small businesses. The corporations win, the people lose. No change.

B.I.N.G.O. Thanks B.B. You saved me a lot af typing today. "Paz"(Peace)