[BrattonBasher]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...rce-stop-iran/

Polls are so easily manipulated that I hardly pay attention to them. But this is disturbing because IMHO if we attempt (Israel included) to bomb the nuclear facility in Iran we will get WW3. Things are different in the Middle East these days. Israel used to reign supreme and easily win any war or conflict. But their war with Hezbullah proved that a small amount of fighters can blend in with civillians and wreak havoc. Iran would rain missles on Israel and force the entire Western world into a terrible conflict. Diplomacy is the answer, as well as harsh sanctions against Iran if they refuse inspecters and continue toward nuclear weapons. War is hell. It's disturbing that so many Americans are too freaking stupid to see that.

[stankydank420]

At the same time look at what they uncovered in Iran last week!!! That huge nuclear site That is really a scary thought. All I think is we need swift action soon. We cant sit on this. When was the deadline for Iran to explain the use of this facility BB? In my opinion Iran has done everything in its power to make nukes behind the worlds back and probably went into overdrive these past few years while we are in Iraq and Afganistan. I would like to see some type of swift action. We now know these people are planning behind the worlds back.

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by stankydank420

At the same time look at what they uncovered in Iran last week!!! That huge nuclear site That is really a scary thought. All I think is we need swift action soon. We cant sit on this. When was the deadline for Iran to explain the use of this facility BB? In my opinion Iran has done everything in its power to make nukes behind the worlds back and probably went into overdrive these past few years while we are in Iraq and Afganistan. I would like to see some type of swift action. We now know these people are planning behind the worlds back.

The days of sending in bombers and then leaving are over. 30 years ago I would say bomb the facility. Now if you do that it will be out and out World War 3. We would be forced to act in defense of Israel, and perhaps Russia would jump to aid Iran. Too messy. Yes Iran needs to be reigned in, but I am scared shitless.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by stankydank420

At the same time look at what they uncovered in Iran last week!!! That huge nuclear site That is really a scary thought. All I think is we need swift action soon. We cant sit on this. When was the deadline for Iran to explain the use of this facility BB? In my opinion Iran has done everything in its power to make nukes behind the worlds back and probably went into overdrive these past few years while we are in Iraq and Afganistan. I would like to see some type of swift action. We now know these people are planning behind the worlds back.

You do realize that Iran has a fully functioning military including a navy, unlike Iraq, right? The idea that the United States or Israel could simply bomb an Iranian nuclear facility and escape without ANY repercussions is complete bullshit. As BB stated, any military action against Iran means war, pure and simple. And y'all know how I feel about war.

Bombing Iran: Worst. Idea. Ever.

[BrattonBasher]

Thank goodness McCain lost, because if he would have won we would not be on better terms with Russia. Russia holds the key to this mess. If they are on board with meaningful sanctions, we have a chance to hold off Iran for a while. Eventually they are going to get nukes, and so are alot of other rogue countries.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

Thank goodness McCain lost, because if he would have won we would not be on better terms with Russia. Russia holds the key to this mess. If they are on board with meaningful sanctions, we have a chance to hold off Iran for a while. Eventually they are going to get nukes, and so are alot of other rogue countries.

Too true! I'm not entirely pleased with Obama's actions in terms of the "defense shield," but at least he's minimizing the threat Bush's plans posed to Russian. You're totally right, without Russian support, sanctions are meaningless.

Seems there's far too many folks like McCain in Washington. Guess they never got that "The Cold War's Over" memo.

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

Too true! I'm not entirely pleased with Obama's actions in terms of the "defense shield," but at least he's minimizing the threat Bush's plans posed to Russian. You're totally right, without Russian support, sanctions are meaningless.

Seems there's far too many folks like McCain in Washington. Guess they never got that "The Cold War's Over" memo.

I one million percent support Obama for not building a freaking missle defense system that does not work!!! This whole notion that we can stop an ICBM is hopelessly flawed, it's a pipe dream! You see one of those systems protecting the Eastern Seaboard? Hell no! It's a Reagan pipe dream!

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

I one million percent support Obama for not building a freaking missle defense system that does not work!!! This whole notion that we can stop an ICBM is hopelessly flawed, it's a pipe dream! You see one of those systems protecting the Eastern Seaboard? Hell no! It's a Reagan pipe dream!

BB for President '16!

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

BB for President '16!

LOL Too much baggage... I'm like Eagleton, I got skeletons in my closet...

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

LOL Too much baggage... I'm like Eagleton, I got skeletons in my closet...

Sigh. Oh well, a girl can dream, can't she?

[DreamSmoker]

I don't watch Fox News for any real facts...
Especially when it comes to polls and opinions...
Murdoch and his machine just feeds you Bullshit...

[Bogart McKilo]

If fox really believed majority ruled, we'd have a comprehensive health care plan in place right now.

[silvercloud]

There will be no WW lll for awhile ~ the middle east ,of which Iran has mucho oil ,but verry little ,or no refinery capacity ~ thus ,by installing severe sanctions ,such as gasoline/diesel ,Iran would be paralyzed in a couple of weeks ~ in order for sanctions to hav bite ,China/Russia will hav to play along ~ the UN is toothless when it comes to effective sanctions as proven in the past ~

Reality sets in when domestic terrorism could create more havoc than an ICBM "if come" ~ acetone/hydrogen peroxide can be obtained in any grocery/hair goods store ,and be used to bake a verry destructive explosion ie., LondonTube attack ~

Iran will stand down to the rest of the free world allowing for enriched plutonium inspections on or before 1/1/10 ~ that is all

[gopers]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

I one million percent support Obama for not building a freaking missle defense system that does not work!!! This whole notion that we can stop an ICBM is hopelessly flawed, it's a pipe dream! You see one of those systems protecting the Eastern Seaboard? Hell no! It's a Reagan pipe dream!

Now BB, are you one million percent sure that the missile system did not work?

The deployment of those missiles was a political move. Then, to not deploy them was another political move.

They are not pipe dreams, they are reality. They do work and are quit good. They are just expensive to develop.

The old Nike Zeus system was 90% accurate and that was from the early 60s.
Of course they had nuclear warheads on them. They went away with the first ABM treaty. Of course the Soviets were caught with their ABM system still in use around Moscow. No thanks to that other expensive system called the SR-71. Gave us real time images(2 hours old) of whatever it flew over

I say cut off their seaborne supplies. You know, a Naval blockade.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by gopers

Now BB, are you one million percent sure that the missile system did not work?

The deployment of those missiles was a political move. Then, to not deploy them was another political move.

They are not pipe dreams, they are reality. They do work and are quit good. They are just expensive to develop.

The old Nike Zeus system was 90% accurate and that was from the early 60s.
Of course they had nuclear warheads on them. They went away with the first ABM treaty. Of course the Soviets were caught with their ABM system still in use around Moscow. No thanks to that other expensive system called the SR-71. Gave us real time images(2 hours old) of whatever it flew over

I say cut off their seaborne supplies. You know, a Naval blockade.

That's just cause you're a Sailor, Gopers.

[Greenbud]

Peace, peace, peace! Say no to war and war mongering! Cannabis and cannabis lovers are peaceful people and we must never taint ourselves with what Farce News Network puts out as news.

We must each respect the inherent beauty and dignity of all life and strive at all times to err on the side of mercy and compassion for all living beings. This is the Buddhist way to world peace! This means Iranians have a Buddha nature just like all living beings do. You and me we're all the same! War is cowardice. It is much harder to attain peace through a sincere and open dialogue respecting the other person's opinion and worth as a human being.

Throughout history lovers of war and hate have been defeated by humans who espouse peace, love, and understanding, men like Ghandi and MLK. Think of it, never has tyranny triumphed over peace. Eventually hate gives in to love.

We must each choose what side we choose to embrace.

I will continue to puff the herb and love my fellow humans! The way I see it, we're Buddhas and Earthlings first and foremost.

Puffin' the herb!!

GB

[gopers]

I would like to know how much time a negotiating do we do?

When they have detonated their first weapon and they have enough material for lets say 10 more weapons or they have already assembled them?

So, then what? More negotiations?

And then they still say F Off?

Then, a little time passes and then a major city is nuked and the jihadist say they will detonate another unless their demands are met.

We have the technology to get samples of the blast sight and the evidence points to Iran.

So, do we say lets all hug and forget about it?

We must do something now to prevent the wackos in charge of Iran from obtaining the weapon.

And if anyone believes they won't give it to one of their proxy terror groups,
you need a little caffeine instead of thc.

Preventing the building of the nasty weapon will prevent a lot more deaths and destruction.

I hope one day in my lifetime that all nuclear weapons would be eliminated.

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by gopers

I would like to know how much time a negotiating do we do?

When they have detonated their first weapon and they have enough material for lets say 10 more weapons or they have already assembled them?

So, then what? More negotiations?

And then they still say F Off?

Then, a little time passes and then a major city is nuked and the jihadist say they will detonate another unless their demands are met.

We have the technology to get samples of the blast sight and the evidence points to Iran.

So, do we say lets all hug and forget about it?

We must do something now to prevent the wackos in charge of Iran from obtaining the weapon.

And if anyone believes they won't give it to one of their proxy terror groups,
you need a little caffeine instead of thc.

Preventing the building of the nasty weapon will prevent a lot more deaths and destruction.

I hope one day in my lifetime that all nuclear weapons would be eliminated.

All out war with Iran would 100% happen for us if we are foolish enough to just strike the site. Please study recent history in regards to war in the Middle East. It's not like it used to be. The days of the Israeli Army dominating the region are over. It's a little troubling to me to see so many folks think sending in a few bombers will cure the worlds ills, and that there are little to no horrific ramifications from doing so. A pre-emptive strike against Iran will immediately galvenize them, and erase the strong dissent that is still strong after the stolen election. Thank goodness we have new leadership in the White House, war is hell and must be the last resort. Fighting Iran would drain every last cent we have, and would require us to start drafting soldiers again.

[juangoodman]

Well gosh darn it Gophers! There you go again! First you bash Obama and now you're bashing this swell guy Ahmadinehandjob who for sure is a reasonable enough guy that diplomacy would surely work. Why wouldn't diplomacy work with someone that doesn't believe in the holocaust? He's reasonable right?

Greenbud I am a great admirer of Buddhism and the Dalai Lama but it really doesn't seem to be working to well for that country called Tibet. Ever heard of it? That's of course apples and oranges to the topic here but I hope you get the point that in this word there are situations where force is necessary for the greater good. If you are so spiritually enlightened that you can sacrifice your life then kudos to you. I have not evolved to such a state.

I think any sane individual would do whatever they could to avoid the hell of war but look at who we are dealing with. A large number of the people hate us because of their religious beliefs and you think that you can reason with them? If you can't what will be the consequences? All of the super powers are in agreement that Iran should not posses nukes so why are your worrying? I would worry if we wait too long. If Iran produces nukes you think there won't be WWIII? Nip it in the bud!

[silvercloud]

Nuking Iran at this point in time would be futile unless the collateral damage to civilian ,non-extremist Iranians would be of no consequence ~

Unfortunately ,the task of hitting its elaborate underground storage facilities prolly won't work even w/latest bunker blaster warheads ~ again ,the only thing Iran will understand is to "choke its mobility" thru "biting" petrol sanctions at this time ~ of course the climate can change as soon as DOD formulates new anti-bunker missiles ,or as soon as the supreme Ayatollah's cronies decide to stand down ~ that is all

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by juangoodman

Well gosh darn it Gophers! There you go again! First you bash Obama and now you're bashing this swell guy Ahmadinehandjob who for sure is a reasonable enough guy that diplomacy would surely work. Why wouldn't diplomacy work with someone that doesn't believe in the holocaust? He's reasonable right?

Greenbud I am a great admirer of Buddhism and the Dalai Lama but it really doesn't seem to be working to well for that country called Tibet. Ever heard of it? That's of course apples and oranges to the topic here but I hope you get the point that in this word there are situations where force is necessary for the greater good. If you are so spiritually enlightened that you can sacrifice your life then kudos to you. I have not evolved to such a state.

I think any sane individual would do whatever they could to avoid the hell of war but look at who we are dealing with. A large number of the people hate us because of their religious beliefs and you think that you can reason with them? If you can't what will be the consequences? All of the super powers are in agreement that Iran should not posses nukes so why are your worrying? I would worry if we wait too long. If Iran produces nukes you think there won't be WWIII? Nip it in the bud!

Ahmadinejad epitomizes a figurehead. If you knew anything about the structure of Iran's government, you'd know who really holds the power in that country. So when we talk about having negotiations with Iran, which Bush actually started during the final year of his second term, Ahmadinejad's more or less out of the picture.

I thought Greenbud's post was awesome!

But, I hate to break it to ya, Tibet isn't an independent nation. Hasn't been for the past, oh, I don't know, 50 years or so. It's technically an "autonomous region" ruled by the Chinese government. That's of course why the Dalai Lama and the rest of the original Tibetan leadership is referred to as a "government in exile."

As for the rest of your post, I don't think Iran should produce a nuclear weapon because I don't think any nation should have nuclear weapons. But there's simply no reason to belive that Iran having a nuclear weapon means they will automatically detonate it. Who are they going to use it on? Israel? You do realize that given their proximity to Israel, if they dropped a nuclear weapon on Israel, they would die as well. So the likelihood of Iran using a nuclear weapon on any other Middle Eastern nation is relatively low.

Besides, Israel has nuclear weapons. So do Pakistan (Iran's neighbors) India, Russian, the U.S. ,and all of Western Europe. Despite the fact that these nations possess nuclear weapons, zero nuclear wars have occured. Thus far, nukes have functioned as a bargaining chip. That's the real reason Iran wants nukes. They want to become a regional hegemon.

This is a chess game folks.

[Night Train]

Originally Posted by juangoodman

Well gosh darn it Gophers! There you go again! First you bash Obama and now you're bashing this swell guy Ahmadinehandjob who for sure is a reasonable enough guy that diplomacy would surely work. Why wouldn't diplomacy work with someone that doesn't believe in the holocaust? He's reasonable right?

Greenbud I am a great admirer of Buddhism and the Dalai Lama but it really doesn't seem to be working to well for that country called Tibet. Ever heard of it? That's of course apples and oranges to the topic here but I hope you get the point that in this word there are situations where force is necessary for the greater good. If you are so spiritually enlightened that you can sacrifice your life then kudos to you. I have not evolved to such a state.

I think any sane individual would do whatever they could to avoid the hell of war but look at who we are dealing with. A large number of the people hate us because of their religious beliefs and you think that you can reason with them? If you can't what will be the consequences? All of the super powers are in agreement that Iran should not posses nukes so why are your worrying? I would worry if we wait too long. If Iran produces nukes you think there won't be WWIII? Nip it in the bud!

Even according to the U.S. intelligence report in 2007 Iran had stopped its nuclear weapons program in 2003 but now they say they are "re-evaluating" their conclusions on this report.
"The estimate noted that Iran continues to enrich uranium for a civil nuclear energy program. But the intelligence experts said they did not consider this a weapons program because it is being done at openly declared facilities under international supervision."
U.S. Finds That Iran Halted Nuclear Arms Bid in 2003 - washingtonpost.com

Unfortunately we are hearing some of the same fear mongering we did when people were convinced Iraq had W.M.D.'s. The latest attempt at fear mongering is when at the G20 it was said Iran was hiding a secret nuclear facility. The only problem was that Iran reported the facility themselves before the IAEA requires them to do so(180 days before enrichment). If these are the regulations the rest of the world is required to follow and Iran does then why are they saying it was a secret? Iran has already said they will allow inspectors into the "secret" facility.
Iran says IAEA rules apply to new nuclear site
Iran to Allow IAEA Inspectors into Nuclear Plant

[SpirituallyEnlightened]

wtf watches fox news?

thats about as credible as the onion.

[silvercloud]

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

You do realize that given their proximity to Israel, if they dropped a nuclear weapon on Israel, they would die as well.

It's unfortunate that you're not that familiar w/modern warfare ~ first of all ,there is no nuclear bomb threatening Israel or any other entity in the mideast ,and for that simple reason makes strategic surgical strike nuclear missiles deadly accurate and contained ~

So yes ,there is a def threat to the region that must be handled thru "peaceful force" ~ no missiles ,bombs ,bullets ~ just no more fuel for Iran to function ~ this ,and this alone will drop the AyatollahKhomenei to his knees ~ that's all for now

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by silvercloud

It's unfortunate that you're not that familiar w/modern warfare ~ first of all ,there is no nuclear bomb threatening Israel or any other entity in the mideast ,and for that simple reason makes strategic surgical strike nuclear missiles deadly accurate and contained ~

So yes ,there is a def threat to the region that must be handled thru "peaceful force" ~ no missiles ,bombs ,bullets ~ just no more fuel for Iran to function ~ this ,and this alone will drop the AyatollahKhomenei to his knees ~ that's all for now

Well gee whiz mister, since ya stated that so succinctly and with such conviction, I'm totally disinclined to question your accuracy!

So Imma believe you over my current International Relations of the Middle East professor and the text for his class!

And, um, when did I say there was a nuclear bomb threatening Israel? Oh, wait, that's right, never. Apparently you don't know the difference between presenting a hypothetical thought experiment and conveying factual information. Sad.