[Au_Hunter]

Too late for Obama to turn it around?

By Camille Paglia

I look forward to reading your comments

[contract.dude]

she is a hater!!! yeah.. yeah ..that's the ticket.. a hater...

i read this article last night, great post.

[gopers]

Oh come on now Contract and Au, Salon is not Liberal or Socialist enough to be taken seriously.

[BrattonBasher]

Interesting article, thanks Au. Yes the Dems and Obama have dropped the healthcare ball and handled this quite poorly. Instead of a united front and a clear and consise set of ideas, we get a clusterfuck. But the article leaves out ALOT, and mis-charachterizes other things. Pelosi did not call all Town Hall protesters Nazi's, she rightfully pointed out that some are indeed making Obama/Hitler signs and comparisons. And the lady makes no mention of the ridiculous distortions coming from the fringe part of the Right, and they are a huge reason this has stalled. And the lady makes no mention of the millions of dollars the health Insurance industry is throwing at this bill and alot of politicians, another huge issue. Why did she leave that out?

[Au_Hunter]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

Interesting article, thanks Au. Yes the Dems and Obama have dropped the healthcare ball and handled this quite poorly. Instead of a united front and a clear and consise set of ideas, we get a clusterfuck. But the article leaves out ALOT, and mis-charachterizes other things. Pelosi did not call all Town Hall protesters Nazi's, she rightfully pointed out that some are indeed making Obama/Hitler signs and comparisons. And the lady makes no mention of the ridiculous distortions coming from the fringe part of the Right, and they are a huge reason this has stalled. And the lady makes no mention of the millions of dollars the health Insurance industry is throwing at this bill and alot of politicians, another huge issue. Why did she leave that out?

"rediculous distortions" were not put quite that way as CP doesn't share your point of view... The first paragraph on page two says,

"Throughout this fractious summer, I was dismayed not just at the self-defeating silence of Democrats at the gaping holes or evasions in the healthcare bills but also at the fogginess or insipidity of articles and Op-Eds about the controversy emanating from liberal mainstream media and Web sources. By a proportion of something like 10-to-1, negative articles by conservatives were vastly more detailed, specific and practical about the proposals than were supportive articles by Democrats, which often made gestures rather than arguments and brimmed with emotion and sneers."

Continuing with the second paragraph,

"There was a glaring inability in most Democratic commentary to think ahead and forecast what would or could be the actual snarled consequences-- in terms of delays, denial of services, errors, miscommunications and gross invasions of privacy -- of a massive single-payer overhaul of the healthcare system in a nation as large and populous as ours. It was as if Democrats live in a utopian dream world, divorced from the daily demands and realities of organization and management."

Your questions are best asked of the author... Salon has a link to her email at the end of the article and I'd enjoy reading her reply.

You aren't bothered by those who use either a swastika or moustache on a picture as a protected first amendment right are you?

[Oxfarm]

Great article AU. Not to steal your thunder, but I have another enlightening editorial from Charles Krauthammer. This is the best one I've read in 2009.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...302859_pf.html

[Au_Hunter]

Originally Posted by gopers

Oh come on now Contract and Au, Salon is not Liberal or Socialist enough to be taken seriously.

I know, but what's one to do.

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by Au_Hunter

"rediculous distortions" were not put quite that way as CP doesn't share your point of view... The first paragraph on page two says,

"Throughout this fractious summer, I was dismayed not just at the self-defeating silence of Democrats at the gaping holes or evasions in the healthcare bills but also at the fogginess or insipidity of articles and Op-Eds about the controversy emanating from liberal mainstream media and Web sources. By a proportion of something like 10-to-1, negative articles by conservatives were vastly more detailed, specific and practical about the proposals than were supportive articles by Democrats, which often made gestures rather than arguments and brimmed with emotion and sneers."

Continuing with the second paragraph,

"There was a glaring inability in most Democratic commentary to think ahead and forecast what would or could be the actual snarled consequences-- in terms of delays, denial of services, errors, miscommunications and gross invasions of privacy -- of a massive single-payer overhaul of the healthcare system in a nation as large and populous as ours. It was as if Democrats live in a utopian dream world, divorced from the daily demands and realities of organization and management."

Your questions are best asked of the author... Salon has a link to her email at the end of the article and I'd enjoy reading her reply.

You aren't bothered by those who use either a swastika or moustache on a picture as a protected first amendment right are you?

The Dems set the tone for the ridiculous distortions by not being on the same page, and no leadership from Obama. There are no freaking Death Panels in this legislation, and as far as I can fathom there is no "massive single-payer overhaul". Just some competion for the healthcare insurance industry that has a stranglehold on America. Why the author ignores the distortions from the fringe right is a mystery to me, kinda freaky in fact.

I acknowledge the First Amendment right to make Nazi references, but they are done in poor taste. Whenever they are made from either side they usually make the person look foolish and partisan. Just this morning I heard some guy on 760am, Rick Roberts, go into a tirade on how yesterdays school speech was exactly what Hitler did in his early years. Makes the guy sound stupid IMHO.

[Au_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Oxfarm

Great article AU. Not to steal your thunder, but I have another enlightening editorial from Charles Krauthammer. This is the best one I've read in 2009.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...302859_pf.html

Please, jump in anytime...

I enjoy having civil discussions about current events and welcome all contributors. I enjoyed the article, thanks!

[Au_Hunter]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

The Dems set the tone for the ridiculous distortions by not being on the same page, and no leadership from Obama. There are no freaking Death Panels in this legislation, and as far as I can fathom there is no "massive single-payer overhaul". Just some competion for the healthcare insurance industry that has a stranglehold on America. Why the author ignores the distortions from the fringe right is a mystery to me, kinda freaky in fact.

I acknowledge the First Amendment right to make Nazi references, but they are done in poor taste. Whenever they are made from either side they usually make the person look foolish and partisan. Just this morning I heard some guy on 760am, Rick Roberts, go into a tirade on how yesterdays school speech was exactly what Hitler did in his early years. Makes the guy sound stupid IMHO.

Leadership... Good point, but this wasn't President Obama's plan. There is a lot here I won't address as it goes into details not covered by Paglia.

Taste... A valid point, but it isn't one sided.

"Death Panels" are not specified as such, but a government gate keeper is the issue, not what the board is called. With a non-bill lacking specifics being discussed, one can forsee loads of "possibilities" as to a possible outcome and IMHO, the lack of specifics is more the problem.

Competition?

Competition only works with one set of standard rules. Odd that insurance companies are limited by regulations as to where they can gain customers, yet the government plan is nation wide.

That would be much like playing basketball against the Lakers, yet insuring that the 5 Lakers had to remain in a 10' square area while you and I had free rein to use the entire court...

Plus Insurance companies cannot print money to subsidize their needs. I'm not sure of the total number of insurance companies operating in the U.S. but adding a "government option" to compete against "public companies" is not equal as the government has never made a "profit" and relies upon tax dollars, not customers willing to freely engage in commerce...

*If* as proposed currently, the restriction that insurance companies cannot sell health insurance policies to new customers restricts the companies ability to remain solvent as they cannot seek to replace customers.

You are concerned with "distortions from the fringe right " yet there are two sides to this coin. Paglia sees more detail from those you say are distorting and again, perhaps Paglia could better speak for herself.

My play for today is over... Time to get productive, but thanks for all the comments!

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by Au_Hunter

Leadership... Good point, but this wasn't President Obama's plan. There is a lot here I won't address as it goes into details not covered by Paglia.

Taste... A valid point, but it isn't one sided.

"Death Panels" are not specified as such, but a government gate keeper is the issue, not what the board is called. With a non-bill lacking specifics being discussed, one can forsee loads of "possibilities" as to a possible outcome and IMHO, the lack of specifics is more the problem.

Competition?

Competition only works with one set of standard rules. Odd that insurance companies are limited by regulations as to where they can gain customers, yet the government plan is nation wide.

That would be much like playing basketball against the Lakers, yet insuring that the 5 Lakers had to remain in a 10' square area while you and I had free rein to use the entire court...

Plus Insurance companies cannot print money to subsidize their needs. I'm not sure of the total number of insurance companies operating in the U.S. but adding a "government option" to compete against "public companies" is not equal as the government has never made a "profit" and relies upon tax dollars, not customers willing to freely engage in commerce...

*If* as proposed currently, the restriction that insurance companies cannot sell health insurance policies to new customers restricts the companies ability to remain solvent as they cannot seek to replace customers.

You are concerned with "distortions from the fringe right " yet there are two sides to this coin. Paglia sees more detail from those you say are distorting and again, perhaps Paglia could better speak for herself.

My play for today is over... Time to get productive, but thanks for all the comments!

I have yet to hear anything about restricting companies from selling policies, please post any link to that. I am appaled and dismayed that no tort reform is in any proposed plan, so IMHO this is a big waste of time and energy. If we don't restrict the trial lawyers real soon, the entire medical profession is going to take a big shit, if it has not already. I am against most of this legislation, yet I work in the field. There must be something done to our for-profit system where the CEO of Unitedhealthcare makes 500 million dollars in one bonus deal!!! I do not have a magic solution, but I am not some fucking Democratic sheep who is going to just blanketly support this because the Dems are proposing it. By that same token I am not a stupid fool who believes the bullshit coming from the fringe and mainstream right. It's always best to read all material and make up your own mind.

[contract.dude]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

The Dems set the tone for the ridiculous distortions by not being on the same page, and no leadership from Obama. There are no freaking Death Panels in this legislation, and as far as I can fathom there is no "massive single-payer overhaul". Just some competion for the healthcare insurance industry that has a stranglehold on America. Why the author ignores the distortions from the fringe right is a mystery to me, kinda freaky in fact.

I acknowledge the First Amendment right to make Nazi references, but they are done in poor taste. Whenever they are made from either side they usually make the person look foolish and partisan. Just this morning I heard some guy on 760am, Rick Roberts, go into a tirade on how yesterdays school speech was exactly what Hitler did in his early years. Makes the guy sound stupid IMHO.

hey did i read that?