[patientx]

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[endlesssky]

hi

Originally Posted by patientx

I am a little concerned tonight because my neice messaged me today to tell me that she was "high" from taking 2 vicodin that were prescribed for her for some sort of ligament tear in her toes.

Now, a little background here, I am the "cool" aunt who doesn't call her a "doper" like her mother does and accepts her cannabis use as perfectly ok, as long as it isn't the first priority in her life. So she feels quite comfortable messaging me up whenever she is "drunk" or "high." Personally, I'd like her to drop the alcohol down to a "one beer" sort of use and just stick with the cannabis. She does not know I am a medical patient, nor have I told her that I use cannabis (long story, but I have my reasons right now to keep that quiet with her). She is 18 BTW.

I was a little concerned today, not because the doctor would give her needed pain medication, or even because she was "high" taking more than the dose on the label (1 tablet), but because her maturity level I think is not where it should be to handle the responsibility of recreational use of any substance (not driving cars, etc).

I guess I'm just a little uncomfortable with her not having much to say to me other than messaging me up when she is "high" on something. I think some of this may have to do with the novelty of actually being able to tell an older adult (she's 18, but to her, I'm like a senior citizen or something, lol) she's been getting high. I'm not sure why this is important to her to tell me this all the time because of course, I don't act shocked, I just give my standard lecture on "being responsible while indulging recreationally."

She has no career plans and is living in a state where cannabis and other drug laws are quite draconian, and that worries the hell out of me because she has had no training from her horrible mother who never had any business having kids in the first place in "personal responsibility" although she has had plenty of abuse and berating from her mother over "doping" (cannabis smoking) meantime mamma is a credit card cheat and a casino addict.

Any advice is welcome. I'm trying to stress personal responsibility without being a hypocrite like her mother, but beyond that I'm not really sure what to do. I do believe she self medicates with cannabis and that it has to do with more that just "getting high" depression, abusive childhood, ADD, lack of parental support. I'd like her to stay away from everything else, but I know what I was like at that age, although, at the same time, I also had career plans, school, responsibility and enjoyed myself recreationally too. I guess the real thing that worries me is this lack of a plan, responsibility, education, with all of the focus being on "getting high" on whatever substances might be around.

hi there. i'm not sure what to say, i have a 21 year old son, and i have been very lucky with him [knock on wood ]. i used to take him to meeting when he was little, so he know's the message and that i'm an alcholic and my mom was an addict and his dad is to. so he is prediposed to already to be an alcholic and addict. now at 16 my son tried mmj and went a little out of control with it. and i worried because i did'nt make a big deal out of it and mostly he used responiably, but smoked more than me and that's what had me worried, but he stopped by himself and decided that it just wasn;t for him. when he turned 18 he already had a job [ he's been working sence he was 16, and bringing in his oun money. well when he trurned 18 he just picked up and left me. he went to live on his father's side of the family. because i wanted him to pay rent and his food cost's and part of utlitlitys. but he said gramma said she would never make her kid's pay rent! shit i was tying to teach him something and they frenkin get in the way anyway he starts useing the intenet and what happens he meets this girl in oragon over the net and puff he's gone. he goes down or up there i don;t know all i know is i wish i could see him or just talk to him alittle. anyway he doen;t drink or use , he says he do'snt really like it!! hurrray hurrrrary i was so happy went his girlfreind said he didn;t go out on his 21 b day. man that;s saying something. i know i looked so forward to being legal to drink and how happy i was too . and now mmj witch has done nothing short of a merical[ i want to spell that so bad] i feel lke an idiot. i have a higher power. do you? if so give your niece to your higher power and let it go i mean really what can you do but pray for them

I dont know if this would work but it is worth a try. Why not print out the damaging effects of Vicodin and Alchohol and then print out the helping effects of cannabis and how there have been no studies to show that cannabis causes any adverse effects from use.

Explain to her that you are concerned for her and that you understand that at her age she is going to experiment but as her Aunt you are concerned about the damaging effects that these other drugs will have on her body, not now but later in life.

I am not sure if you have already done this but it might help. I know for me when I was 18 I knew it all, when I didnt know anything and once the evidence was brought forward to me from actual medical professionals instead of my parents, cause let face it at 18 what do our parents know, at least that is the mentality most 18 year olds have.

I hope that you find a way to reach out to her and help her see that other than cannibis, the other drugs will destroy a person from the inside out without them even realizing it.

[The Lysergic Projekt]

First of all I think you should realize 2 things :

First off, most if not all vicodin scripts read "Take one to two tablets every four hours, or as needed for pain."

Secondly, If she's not use to opiates, or pharmaceuticals in general, even one tablet of a vicodin would give her a "high" - just the day my mother took one of her new prescriptions for a broken back and was high as a fucking kite. One pill. Now I have taken said prescription before and know it to not be too powerful.

Its all in ones body chemistry wheter it will produce a high. One tablet, twenty tablets. It just depends.

[The Lysergic Projekt]

I feel I should add one more thing.

I am in no was condoning, or justifying what you feel to be her abuse of a substance. I am merely stating a few facts that most people tend to over look.

This is not directed at anyone in perticular( I love all my fellow weedtrackers) but I've noticed alot of patients ride their high horse because they a mmj patients and dont take pharms anymore, so they are better, healthier.. what have you.

My opinion on that is this - Smoking ANYTHING is bad for you, and sometimes(not always, almost never IMHO) western medicine is the right choice.

Thats all I have to say about that

[MMM420SoCal]

Opiates are bad... 2 vicodins leads to 2 percocets leads to heroin...

Not for everyone, but for some... I'd be the cool aunt and try to downplay the opiates and play up the cannabis... since you're Ok with cannabis, encourage that and discourage the other. Make it clear that the other will make you addicted and is basically legal heroin...

Good luck in your quest.


M3

[patientx]

sky, chris, thanks for your response.

I guess I'm trying to analyze on one level why it is so important for her to message me when she is high or drunk, it's almost as if it is exciting for her in some way to message me up and tell me this, but I don't understand why because I am so dispassionate about it. Perhaps therein lies my answer. She has two extremes in her life in regard to substance use, her young friends who have little responsibility in their lives like herself, and her hypocritical mother who is a money fraud and a casino addict who believes that "drugs bad" "gambling and con jobs good." Her mother sent her to a "teen rehab" program when she was in her teens for nothing more than the little pot smoking she was doing. In some ways I feel like these programs can make the drive to use subtances even worse, as children are very focused on rebelling and finding themselves. Not to mention all of the DARE training in the schools lie to the kids, and once they find out they've been lied to about cannabis, then it's like, "well if I was lied to about cannabis, maybe they lied to me about meth too."

My viewpoint and instruction on substances with her is much different than either extreme she gets with friends or her mother.

The first time I got her to talk to me about substances, before she knew my position on these issues, she repeated a mantra about "being addicted to pot" taught to her, I guess that's what she thought an adult wanted to hear. Do I think she is addicted to it? No. Do I think she self medicates? I do. But it's not a huge issue compared to other things she could be doing, as long as she has some responsibility and focus in her life, beyond partying with her friends.

BTW, her "gateway" drug to these other substances, like most people, was never cannabis, it was cigarettes and alcohol.

[patientx]

delete

[patientx]

Originally Posted by MMM420SoCal

Opiates are bad... 2 vicodins leads to 2 percocets leads to heroin...

Not for everyone, but for some... I'd be the cool aunt and try to downplay the opiates and play up the cannabis... since you're Ok with cannabis, encourage that and discourage the other. Make it clear that the other will make you addicted and is basically legal heroin...

Good luck in your quest.


M3

I was very lucky that when I was put into a pain mangement program after my surgeries that I did not become addicted, I saw it coming... I saw the signs on the wall for myself, losing focus on my work, on taking care of my house, and I tapered down off of those vicodins over the period of a week with the help of cannabis and I was done with that. I was in horrible pain, but the pain of not being the worker I was before was even worse. Cannabis gave me my life back.

[resipsa]

The next time she calls, be it high or not, tell her both

1. Her frequency of use
and
2. The liklihood of addiction

of her recreational drug choices, seems to be increasing. Ask her why she thinks this is. If she denies it remind her that the phone bill tells another tale.

I've found if you can just get the young woman talking, it all comes out soon enough. Let's face it, you can't address the behavior too efficiently if you don't know the reason for it.

I know you'll think of a more diplomatic way to put the above. It's great you're taking an interest, because it sounds like no other responsible adult is. And man, if you're ever going to make a life changing mistake, it's between 18 and 35 if you're female.

[patientx]

I believe that the DEA and DARE have made my job with her a hell of a lot harder, and this makes me very angry and bitter. I do not think kids would go wild like this with all of their focus on substances if they hadn't been lied to. Lying to the children gives them a false sense of security once they discover the lies. She knows that smoking cannabis doesn't do what DARE said it would. And maybe she's experimented with other things, I am sure she has, and figured out that DARE was overstating the case or outright lying about those substances to. The worst fallout from this is that she goes down that path to addiction because of a false sense of security she has after being lied to.

I try my best to clear up the lies and restore a sense of balance between recreational fun time, and life planning and work time. But it's a tough job, and the DEA and DARE have basically cut out the easy path for her to go down, just as they promise in all of their propaganda.

[Pitjustice]

Originally Posted by patientx

sky, chris, thanks for your response.

I guess I'm trying to analyze on one level why it is so important for her to message me when she is high or drunk, it's almost as if it is exciting for her in some way to message me up and tell me this, but I don't understand why because I am so dispassionate about it. Perhaps therein lies my answer. She has two extremes in her life in regard to substance use, her young friends who have little responsibility in their lives like herself, and her hypocritical mother who is a money fraud and a casino addict who believes that "drugs bad" "gambling and con jobs good." Her mother sent her to a "teen rehab" program when she was in her teens for nothing more than the little pot smoking she was doing. In some ways I feel like these programs can make the drive to use subtances even worse, as children are very focused on rebelling and finding themselves. Not to mention all of the DARE training in the schools lie to the kids, and once they find out they've been lied to about cannabis, then it's like, "well if I was lied to about cannabis, maybe they lied to me about meth too."

My viewpoint and instruction on substances with her is much different than either extreme she gets with friends or her mother.

The first time I got her to talk to me about substances, before she knew my position on these issues, she repeated a mantra about "being addicted to pot" taught to her, I guess that's what she thought an adult wanted to hear. Do I think she is addicted to it? No. Do I think she self medicates? I do. But it's not a huge issue compared to other things she could be doing, as long as she has some responsibility and focus in her life, beyond partying with her friends.

BTW, her "gateway" drug to these other substances, like most people, was never cannabis, it was cigarettes and alcohol.

It sounds to me that she is crying out for direction.

[Pitjustice]

It would have to be a scary world for a young lady in the situation you described.

A tear for her.

For you I would say:

Keep the door of communication open and let her feel free to be at the level she is, and that you geneunly care.

She needs someone who will put her head in there bussom and lovily hug her.

And let her know thats it's ok that she out of balance and that she can forgive herself for being out of balance.

And that she had no choice on the context she was born into, and that she can strart from where she is now and be where she is now while dedicating herself to healing and geting well each day.

To dedicate herself to integrated honesty.

To understanding the nature of what is a value creation in her existance, and to avoid what is a value destruction, to her life and to all others.

And that growth will come in stages, and not to be too impatient, and not condeme herself if she doesnt get it overnight.

To learn to create value for self and others and to do no harm in this life, and it's all going to be ok.

And that its not just her, that we all need some growing, healing, compassion, love and direction.

We are living at a very strange time for our specese.

And that Integrity is the key to growth/strength and the end of her fear.

She may not understand this, but its a big piece of the puzzle that she needs.

Feel free to share it with her.

Love.

[endlesssky]

Originally Posted by Pitjustice

It would have to be a scary world for a young lady in the situation you described.

A tear for her.

For you I would say:

Keep the door of communication open and let her feel free to be at the level she is, and that you geneunly care.

She needs someone who will put her head in there bussom and lovily hug her.

And let her know thats it's ok that she out of balance and that she can forgive herself for being out of balance.

And that she had no choice on the context she was born into, and that she can strart from where she is now and be where she is now while dedicating herself to healing and geting well each day.

To dedicate herself to integrated honesty.

To understanding the nature of what is a value creation in her existance, and to avoid what is a value destruction, to her life and to all others.

And that growth will come in stages, and not to be too impatient, and not condeme herself if she doesnt get it overnight.

To learn to create value for self and others and to do no harm in this life, and it's all going to be ok.

And that its not just her, that we all need some growing, healing, compassion, love and direction.

We are living at a very strange time for our specese.

And that Integrity is the key to growth/strength and the end of her fear.

She may not understand this, but its a big piece of the puzzle that she needs.

Feel free to share it with her.

Love.

hi there, i know this is sad, but some of us are born with addictive pensonality's and no amount of education, or good intention's will get us no where. that said, knowlage[i frenkin can't spell] will set us free!! addiction is a desease. and it's the only one that tell's you you don;t have a desease. denial is a bitch, i hope and pray that a higher power which i choose to call GOD. will guide you and your niece too the help and understanding that she needs . i know that it was'nt about what i used, it dos'nt make any differance what drug or any form of escape from the reality and the feeling's will do. it's about what hapen's when you use it and why you use it . it can be recrational for you but it may not be for her. and that;s not her fault. at 18 we are not mature enough and don;t have enough experinence to know what can happen to her if in the wrong place and time with people she might think are good peaple ., and she's high. at 18 now a days anything can happen it's not safe. to use any drug, at 18 . and if she use mj to help her cope. well she need's to find out how to cope without it and that's how i really feel . i don;t think kid's should do drug's of any kind , untill they are old enough and lived long enough to make a good decinstion. but it do'esnt matter what i think cause everyone has an opinen and i want to give my kid every chance he can get. oh, he'll always do what he thinks is best and that's cool it's his life i already learned from my mistake's and have lived my life, all i can do i try to pass it on. live and let live . if it ain't broke don't fix it. your in my prayers lo endlesssky

[Leosyndicate]

Originally Posted by Capt. Zigzag

She'll be just fine. Although it may not look like it right now. It's your positive and honest influences which are getting through. She might have a scare here and there but she will emerge a mature adult with proper values. She is most definitely attracted to your guidance because she feels the true and real love which is associated with it. She is also calling you because she subconsciously needs to touch a proper base to maintain her balance. This should tell you that even when she is blasted she knows where the "RIGHT" is. You keep being you and she'll be fine. Make a nice big family.

Remember when you were 18?

-

Well said, Zig.

I'll weigh in on this a little more, once I clear some deadlines off my desk.

It's a blessing, patientx, that your neice desires to communicate with you when in an altered state. This is evidence of her trust and appreciation in and for you and if or when her experimentation becomes habit... becomes a problem, you will likely be either the one to whom she comes for help-- or you will be in a better position than others to get through to her. That's the bright side. The relationship you have with her puts you in a unique position to step in as her lifeline, if that becomes necessary at some point.

When I was neck-deep in my addictions, few people could break the veil in which I coccooned myself. My mother did, eventually... and it was through compassion and sympathy rather than criticism or tough love. Both approaches have their time and place, IMO.

Years before that point, I used to call or visit her sometimes when I was under the influence of one thing or another. I would crave the interaction with her, while high. I felt like we understood each other better when I was f'ed up. Later, when recreation became daily survival, she was the only person that could divert me from the path of self-destruction.. Initially, I got sober for her. I didn't value myself at the time.. And I certainly would not have had the initiative to clean up for anyone else's sake.

gtg.. will check-in later.

Dustin L.