[cllindner]

WARNING-ALL MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES IN LOS ANGELES

Tomorrow, District Atty. Steve Cooley and Los Angeles City Attorney Carmen Trutanich will be speaking at a luncheon training meeting of narcotics officers in the greater Los Angeles area.

Before you read further, it is necessary to relate why I am writing to you authoritatively. I have been practicing criminal law in Los Angeles for 35 years, am the past president of the Los Angeles Criminal Courts Bar Assoc. Cooley and I have been friends for roughly 20 years. Between my trying death penalty cases, I enjoy representing growers, vendors and clinics in the medical marijuana community and now represent a dozen Southern California clinics on a monthly retainer basis, and I have been doing so since 2005. If you need more of my bona fides, go to my website: havecrimewilltravel.com. This is not an advertisement. IT IS THE BASIS FOR THE WARNING THAT FOLLOWS:

I met privately with Mr. Cooley last Friday for roughly 90 minutes. With respect to our discussions re medical marijuana clinics, I am now convinced that clinic raids likely will occur sometime within the next week or two. The basis for my opinion is Dist. Atty. Cooley's representation to me that tomorrow's luncheon is about strategy and tactics, and therefore attendance at the meeting is limited to law enforcement only. (I tongue-in-cheek offered to buy Cooley and Trutanich lunch if I could come, but was smilingly turned down. Also not a good sign for clinic owners...)

If the DA and the City Attorney had concerns about their legal interpretation of SB 420, it is my opinion that tomorrow's training would not be about tactics. The word "tactics" connotes preparation for action, and preparation for action when directed at narcotics officers overwhelmingly suggests preparations for raids.

"Tactics" in this case probably means educating the narcs regarding their search warrant affidavits - i.e., what factual rendition that would cause a judge to believe an officer's representation that a felony was being committed inside the clinic. The prosecutors are relying on the last two pages of the California Supreme Court decision in People versus Mentch, in which Justice Werdegar, writing for a unanimous Court, states that marijuana may not be sold by someone outside a collective to a collective owner, manager or member.

The prosecutors object to clinics that operate at great profit to the owners (taking them outside the nonprofit status of SB 420). They also object to the vast proliferation of clinics, especially in the city of Los Angeles (and more especially during a ban on clinics opening while the hardship process occurred).

2) They also object to the vast proliferation of clinics, especially in the City of Los Angeles (and more especially considering the proliferation during a ban on clinics opening while the hardship process occurred).

3) The recent proliferation of clinics is mostly caused by people wanting to make money quickly with relatively little outlay when considered against the return on investment. Our office averages about 5-6 calls per day from potentially new entrepreneurs. Some of you are dedicated to marijuana as medicine. I know that. Others are dedicated to making money. You know that.

I expect that the cops, supported by various task forces and the DEA, will raid a significant number (a dozen or more?) clinics very dramatically and with news crews broadcasting, door kicking, dope grabbing, detaining, arresting, etc. behavior. Some law enforcement mucky muck will explain that the clinics violate both state and federal law (thereby meeting A.G. Holder’s rules for DEA engagement).

So DO THIS NOW to protect yourselves and your patients:

1) Protect your patient records. If you use computers and a modem to run your business you may be a “provider” within the meaning of the federal HIPAA medical privacy laws, and your patients’ physician’s recommendations must be protected. In addition, the medical information falls within Article 1, Section 1 privacy provisions of the California Constitution. I assure you that the narcs will not care about HIPAA or the State Constitution and will seize your records. Let your lawyer worry about that problem. We actually have skills for this sort of thing.

2) My advice: A) duplicate your entire patient list and physicians’ recommendations in the next few days, preferably on computer, and preferably cached in a place that is secure (your house is not secure). They will hit your house and take your computer, as well as the clinic’s computer. Store the records encrypted online or on a CD or DVD or for that matter, a USB transport drive); B) your patient books must remain onsite for you to legally conduct business. However, your accounting books, correspondence and other papers should be removed and stored in a safe place, again not your residence. If the cops want your books, the DA knows how to issue a subpoena, and hopefully your lawyer knows how to quash one; C) The narcs will especially be looking for “pays and owes”, i.e., notes or lists of what marijuana you purchased, at what price and what you sold that product for at a presumably higher price. It does not matter whether you have used aliases or encrypted names. The list is the list and is a nasty piece of prosecution evidence if the disparity of what you paid and what you sold for is substantial. Put it somewhere safe. They will try to decrypt it, and at a minimum, use expert testimony to explain its intricacies to a jury.

3) Minimize your on-site inventory. They are going to take it, so the more you have, the more you will lose. If somebody else gets hit, breathe a sigh of relief after the next round is over.

4) If you are raided, the cops will order you to open the safe. Presumably, the warrant will cover the contents in any safe, which means their order is legal (read the warrant – they have to give you a copy). Open the safe if the cops order it. If you don’t cooperate, they will have locksmiths drill the safe. Why waste a good safe? Obviously, it would be good to have nothing of significance inside the safe.

5) These raids will make no sense unless the cops make arrests. The cops may arrest all employees in the dispensary, or just the manager, or just the owner, etc.. We have no way of knowing who or how many in advance. You probably will be charged with violating Health & Safety Code Sec. 11359 (possession for sale – a felony). Bail for Sec. 11359 is $20,000 for under a pound, $25,000 for more than 1 lb., $30,000 for more than 10 pounds, $50,000 for more than 25 pounds and $100,000 for over 50 pounds. If you have edibles, they will count the weight of each entire brownie, etc. The smaller the inventory the smaller your bail. Assume you or your employees are going to get arrested NOW, not later, and make preparations to pay for bail. The cops also may cheat and weigh the weed inside its container. Shit happens. Just be ready. Jail is unpleasant.

6) Put aside a serious chunk of money NOW for lawyers. If you own a clinic, you may have a very hard time qualifying for public defender or indigent defense legal services. Employees are more likely to get appointed counsel since they make relatively small money. DO NOT put your bail or attorney money into your BANK. As soon as they can find bank statements, check books, etc., they are going to freeze your accounts, and then try to forfeit your money. They also will tell the bank not to let you have access to your accounts, and your bank will obey. Make alternative plans with people you can trust. You are simply trying to keep your business going under potential adverse circumstances. Your business is legal under California law, and you should take appropriate precautions. Think earthquake, etc..

7) DO NOT under any circumstance deposit or withdraw $10,000 or more from your bank. They are required to report such transactions to the FBI. They also may, but are not required to, report smaller cash deposits and withdrawals.

8) If your patients use an on-site debit or credit card machine, there is a fair chance that IRS forensic accountants will eventually be looking at those transactions. Your books must reflect your patients’ electronic transactions. There are formulas for extrapolating gross income from credit/debit card data.

9) The cops are not your friends. If they arrest you, they will not “go easy” on you if you cooperate. They will not “talk to the DA” on your behalf. They will screw you. They are expressly allowed by the U.S. Supreme Court to lie to you to get you to confess wrongdoing. SHUT UP AND CALL A LAWYER. DO NOT WAIVE YOUR MIRANDA RIGHTS. IF TIME GOES BY, JUST SIT THERE AND BEAR IT.

10) The reason weed costs $400/oz. is because it is legally dangerous to possess, grow, sell or transport. You may take the risk out of dedication to “the cause”, but some of you make a very healthy living. If it wasn’t illegal, everyone could grow it in his/her backyard. Stop bitching. This risk was and is inherent to the business, and presumably your prices incorporate that risk.

11) If you don’t have a lawyer, i.e., a criminal lawyer, find one NOW. You will need to call someone when it hits the fan, and criminal lawyers after your arrest will demand to be paid up front, as you have no business relationship. (We deal with criminals. What would you expect?)

12) NORML has a list of “approved counsel”. I am on that list, but I don’t like the list itself. You do not need a “marijuana lawyer” no matter what other civilians tell you. You need a very very good criminal lawyer, preferably one who does marijuana cases as a part, but not the entirety of, his/her practice.

13) Some idiot out there seems to think that L.A. marijuana defendants require attorneys from the Bay Area, devoted to “the cause” to defend them. She has tried to explain the rationale to me, and it is nonsense. We have perhaps 100 times as much crime in L.A. as S.F.. Do you really think some out of town dope lawyer is going to scare the D.A.’s office? This isn’t the Matrix, and you certainly are not Neo. You are going to need help.

If you take this warning seriously, do a mitzvah and inform other clinic owners, etc. Not everyone reads Weedtracker. I already have posted an email to my colleagues on a state-wide encrypted criminal defense attorney bulletin board, and 3 or 4 of us advise our colleagues when it gets too arcane.

I have been giving out free bits of advice on Weedtracker periodically over the last several years just to help folks out and have amassed reputation points to show for it. I strongly urge L.A. CITY and L.A. COUNTY clinic owners to make their preparations NOW. They are coming. The difference for surviving or not surviving personally, for the health of your patients, and for your dispensary is PREPARATION. Good luck.

Charles L. “Chuck” Lindner
Attorney at Law
Santa Monica

[wallawalla]

My question is do you think they will raid both pre ico and post ico locations?

[cllindner]

I think they don't care.

Chuck

[wallawalla]

Originally Posted by cllindner

I think they don't care.

Chuck

That is what my understanding is. Also that in the end we will only have a very small amount of locations left if any.

[ZENITH]

Sounds like Mr. linder will be very busy....

[cllindner]

Possibly, Zenith, but I'm busy in any event....and was there part of the "no gratuitous comments....we have a problem here... request that you missed? No, don't answer. Please. Just find somewhere else to post.

Chuck

[Deejaycruise]

If coops are legal why would they have to take any additional steps to protect themselves. I though I was legal, when I went to court, I volunteered all my accounting, daily tally sheets identifying each vendor and patient by name. (All vendors were named Y, and all patients were named X) I did not volunteer the daily sign in sheet that would allow anyone the ability to determine exactly who bought what when, those were at my day job. Since my case got published there has been a flurry of activity from all those that asked it to be published, including Carmen's Office.

I would also expect raids in Santa Ana, but in Lake Forrest I expect civil action and lots of fines. (same city attorney as used on my case).

If your legal you do not have to hide from anything.

In my case they mooted the appeal to the denial of my business license for a medical cannabis collective with a moratorium on dispensaries. Collectives, cooperative, dispensary does not matter what you call it if you get cash over the counter at a storefront for marijuana, its not legal.

If on the other hand have a real collective and not one that appoints a board of directors for life, I mean one with voting power by each member, where they all know where the grow is and know everyone in the collective, it may be legal but do not expect any better treatment than the crook down the street selling in over the counter. If you do not know every member of the collective you are a member in, you do not belong to a real collective.

[ZENITH]

Originally Posted by cllindner

Possibly, Zenith, but I'm busy in any event....and was there part of the "no gratuitous comments....we have a problem here... request that you missed? No, don't answer. Please. Just find somewhere else to post.

Chuck

I am sorry Mr. linder..Thank you for the heads up for the entire community.

The thing is...how many coops will read this...mabie A.S.A should get on the call tree..

I dont know...see I am only a patient...that sometimes goes to coops.


and ill post here or on other threads as well.


I hope that your insight does prove to be wrong...but since you do have the insider trading gospel...mabie we..WE the patients should be calling coops...??

[wallawalla]

I hope people do pay attention, because it is always better safe than sorry. I believe raids will happen soon not to be negative, but you can feel the tension from LA.

[cagem1976]

Thanks for the info...

[gomez760]

Great Info

[The Axis]

Chuck, I think your information was presented very well. Thank you much for posting.

One question; would it not be possible for several/many/all collectives to jointly hire an attorney or team of attorneys to represent them? Obviously, this would help all the collectives financially and present a more united front, rather than each collective trying to take on the legal system by itself.

Thanks again...

[codeman420]

free Bump

thanks for taking the time to do this for our co-ops

[cllindner]

Axis,

Unfortunately, these cases are going to put the dispensaries in the criminal courts, where it is far more difficult (because of 5th and 6th Amendment concerns regarding representation and due process) to have one lawyer represent more than a single defendant. My working assumption is that a clinic will get hit and 2 or 3 people will be arrested. "The boss" should retain EXTREMELY competent counsel, and the other two may be eligible to receive court appointed attorneys or deputy public defenders. Some are very good. Some are not. The insurance is having the experienced retained attorney effectively as lead counsel. He/she will write all the appropriate motions and cocounsel will join on behalf of their defendants.

The crunch may well come in front of a jury, however, and it is for that reason that I strongly prefer experienced criminal lawyers who regularly try cases with 12 in the box. Medical Marijuana lawyers do not spend a lot of time in front of juries, and juries are crunch time in my specialty. It is why the prosecution has no fear whatsoever of the medical marijuana bar. I have been doing my best to change that perception, but then, I don't consider myself a "medical marijuana lawyer", and they don't regard me as one. I confess that I did offer to have my client plead to a less-than-an-ounce charge this morning. We are dealing with 10 pounds and about $10K. In about a month, the DDA might take the deal since anything is better than having the defendant found to be immune from prosecution. On the other hand, I want the 10 lbs. and $10K back....

I hope this ramble answers your question. It is difficult to explain collegiality between defense counsel and yet requiring that each defendant have a separate attorney. By the way, if lawyers start saying they will represent multiple defendants in a criminal proceeding under these circumstances, the prospective client(s) should run away, far far away. It is a sign that the lawyer is more interested in the fee rather than in the potential conflicts raised by representing multiple parties. Protecting the client must always come first.

Best,

Chuck

Originally Posted by The Axis

Chuck, I think your information was presented very well. Thank you much for posting.

One question; would it not be possible for several/many/all collectives to jointly hire an attorney or team of attorneys to represent them? Obviously, this would help all the collectives financially and present a more united front, rather than each collective trying to take on the legal system by itself.

Thanks again...

[Dubbsacks]

Thank you for the lookout brother.
Good karma to you and yours.

[washgirl]

[QUOTE=Deejaycruise;1121679]If coops are legal why would they have to take any additional steps to protect themselves. I though I was legal, when I went to court, I volunteered all my accounting, daily tally sheets identifying each vendor and patient by name. (All vendors were named Y, and all patients were named X) I did not volunteer the daily sign in sheet that would allow anyone the ability to determine exactly who bought what when, those were at my day job. Since my case got published there has been a flurry of activity from all those that asked it to be published, including Carmen's Office.

I would also expect raids in Santa Ana, but in Lake Forrest I expect civil action and lots of fines. (same city attorney as used on my case).

If your legal you do not have to hide from anything.

In my case they mooted the appeal to the denial of my business license for a medical cannabis collective with a moratorium on dispensaries. Collectives, cooperative, dispensary does not matter what you call it if you get cash over the counter at a storefront for marijuana, its not legal.

If on the other hand have a real collective and not one that appoints a board of directors for life, I mean one with voting power by each member, where they all know where the grow is and know everyone in the collective, it may be legal but do not expect any better treatment than the crook down the street selling in over the counter. If you do not know every member of the collective you are a member in, you do not belong to a real collective.[/QUOTE]

YES! Exactly! if your "coop" sells your meds @560 an ounce it is not a non profit! If your "coop" won't let you pitch in to help pay for your meds it is not really a "coop/collective"! I for one am sick of getting my medicine from a drug dealer dressed up in a fancy store front, offering tickets to great drawings and high prices! I am sick of going into a shop and feeling so trashy poor because I cannot even afford to look at but one strain (usually called something appealing like stink bug) a strain that will not fully help in the areas it should.

comes down to this shops run by patients will benefit patients prices will be affordable to all (and a donation is a donation!) but one run by drug dealers will never ever benefit anyone except the owner! Try to "donate" instead of pay their price and watch yourself walk out with nothing! I did do this recently at the 560an ounce shop. I went in with 20.00 picked out a 25gram and handed him 20.00 and said that is all I have. He said, if you had one more dollar you could get some STINKBUG!!! I got nothing (not even a g of stinkbug for a dollar off it was not offered) and have not been back!

[washgirl]

Originally Posted by cllindner

Axis,

Unfortunately, these cases are going to put the dispensaries in the criminal courts, where it is far more difficult (because of 5th and 6th Amendment concerns regarding representation and due process) to have one lawyer represent more than a single defendant. My working assumption is that a clinic will get hit and 2 or 3 people will be arrested. "The boss" should retain EXTREMELY competent counsel, and the other two may be eligible to receive court appointed attorneys or deputy public defenders. Some are very good. Some are not. The insurance is having the experienced retained attorney effectively as lead counsel. He/she will write all the appropriate motions and cocounsel will join on behalf of their defendants.

The crunch may well come in front of a jury, however, and it is for that reason that I strongly prefer experienced criminal lawyers who regularly try cases with 12 in the box. Medical Marijuana lawyers do not spend a lot of time in front of juries, and juries are crunch time in my specialty. It is why the prosecution has no fear whatsoever of the medical marijuana bar. I have been doing my best to change that perception, but then, I don't consider myself a "medical marijuana lawyer", and they don't regard me as one. I confess that I did offer to have my client plead to a less-than-an-ounce charge this morning. We are dealing with 10 pounds and about $10K. In about a month, the DDA might take the deal since anything is better than having the defendant found to be immune from prosecution. On the other hand, I want the 10 lbs. and $10K back....

I hope this ramble answers your question. It is difficult to explain collegiality between defense counsel and yet requiring that each defendant have a separate attorney. By the way, if lawyers start saying they will represent multiple defendants in a criminal proceeding under these circumstances, the prospective client(s) should run away, far far away. It is a sign that the lawyer is more interested in the fee rather than in the potential conflicts raised by representing multiple parties. Protecting the client must always come first.

Best,

Chuck

Too bad as a community we cannot stand back and let them shut down illegally run coops! Too bad we must react the same as each one gets raided instead of looking at each one and publically thanking officers for doing their job on the ones that weren't run properly. I think our force behind those running by the letter of the law would be greater if we (as a community) were more choosey as to which coops deserve the defense and which ones deserve punishment. As a community if we stood behind the legally run coops our crediblity as a community will rise. Public in general are not stupid, they see the kids coming out of the pot shops shaking their bags kicking their hills, at the car load of their friends who are hooting and hollering that they scored! I was in a waiting room recently when a kid confided (rather loudly lol) to another in the room that he and his friends put the 175dollars together to "buy the rec" those were his words! When my PCP recommended I get my MMJ rec. I started making phone calls and did not stop until I found a Dr. that wanted my medical records (not my story and a scar lol) and was priced within reason to a normal office consult!

I supposed the above rambles can be summed up to this, if we don't start policing ourselves the raids will continue to uncover true illegal activity and we will never gain crediblity with the GP(general public) if we police ourselves then the raids will soon start looking like they should horrible attacks on a community trying to help each other under a prop that was passed in CA

[mooniegoogoo]

I wanna scream right now. So I should start sending my mother with MS and walks with a cane to ILLEALLY purchase her cannabis from a street dealer? WTF this city and al these "so-called" laws that they want to "enforce" are BS. I wonder how much tax payers money is going into this operation, I bet its enough to build a dozen small homes for homelss women and children, but poverty isnt the concern, people using cannabis is. I'm really all for shtting down illeagally ran co-ops, but what the legit ones?

[zbestwun2001]

Thanks Chuck for giving so selflessly to our forum.

People like you are few and far between.

Peace

[mooniegoogoo]

Yes, much appreciated. Just dont dont where to go from here. Looking foraed for updats.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by Deejaycruise

If coops are legal why would they have to take any additional steps to protect themselves. I though I was legal, when I went to court, I volunteered all my accounting, daily tally sheets identifying each vendor and patient by name. (All vendors were named Y, and all patients were named X) I did not volunteer the daily sign in sheet that would allow anyone the ability to determine exactly who bought what when, those were at my day job. Since my case got published there has been a flurry of activity from all those that asked it to be published, including Carmen's Office.

I would also expect raids in Santa Ana, but in Lake Forrest I expect civil action and lots of fines. (same city attorney as used on my case).

If your legal you do not have to hide from anything.

In my case they mooted the appeal to the denial of my business license for a medical cannabis collective with a moratorium on dispensaries. Collectives, cooperative, dispensary does not matter what you call it if you get cash over the counter at a storefront for marijuana, its not legal.

If on the other hand have a real collective and not one that appoints a board of directors for life, I mean one with voting power by each member, where they all know where the grow is and know everyone in the collective, it may be legal but do not expect any better treatment than the crook down the street selling in over the counter. If you do not know every member of the collective you are a member in, you do not belong to a real collective.

You don't get it at all.

p.s. Thanks again Mr.Linder for doing your best to spread truth and competent advice. We all truly appreciate your efforts!

[Smilodon]

Thank you, Mr. Linder. When the history is written your name will be writ large.

[zbestwun2001]

Originally Posted by Deejaycruise

If coops are legal why would they have to take any additional steps to protect themselves. I though I was legal, when I went to court, I volunteered all my accounting, daily tally sheets identifying each vendor and patient by name. (All vendors were named Y, and all patients were named X) I did not volunteer the daily sign in sheet that would allow anyone the ability to determine exactly who bought what when, those were at my day job. Since my case got published there has been a flurry of activity from all those that asked it to be published, including Carmen's Office.

I would also expect raids in Santa Ana, but in Lake Forrest I expect civil action and lots of fines. (same city attorney as used on my case).

If your legal you do not have to hide from anything.

In my case they mooted the appeal to the denial of my business license for a medical cannabis collective with a moratorium on dispensaries. Collectives, cooperative, dispensary does not matter what you call it if you get cash over the counter at a storefront for marijuana, its not legal.

If on the other hand have a real collective and not one that appoints a board of directors for life, I mean one with voting power by each member, where they all know where the grow is and know everyone in the collective, it may be legal but do not expect any better treatment than the crook down the street selling in over the counter. If you do not know every member of the collective you are a member in, you do not belong to a real collective.

Oy Vey.....You sort of remind me of the orchestra playing on the Titantic all the way to the end.
I would heed what Chuck says and prepare.

We are not living in an idealistic world unfortunately ....

Hope for the best, prepare for the WORSE.

[koudekirk]

Thanks Chuck. I hope some are able to better prepare for what may come.

[wallawalla]

As I said before buckle up for a very bumpy road!!