[Greenbud]

Here's a good summary of today's events:

http://aboutmedicalmarijuana.com/200.../plum-fumbles/


PLUM fumbles
September 29th, 2009 | by Don Duncan |

Medical cannabis advocates left today’s Planning and Land Use Management (PLUM) Committee disappointed when, after more than two hours of comments and debate, the committee voted unanimously to approve a badly flawed ordinance prepared by the City Attorney’s office. Chairman Ed Reyes gave staff four pages of instructions amending the ordinance before sending it on to the Public Safety Committee. However, advocates argue that the amendments do not address the key issues that make the ordinance unworkable – the legal status of storefront collectives, sales of cannabis, and patient-cultivator privacy.

Like his predecessor, City Attorney Carmen Trutanich insists that sales of medical cannabis and storefront facilities that provide it to members of patients’ collectives and cooperatives are illegal. As a result of this faulty interpretation of law, the City Attorney’s staff developed a draft ordinance that seeks to regulate the collective cultivation of medical cannabis, instead of the storefront facilities from which medicine is provided. Trutanich’s position is in conflict with guidelines published by the California Attorney General last year and a growing body of case law.

This conflict over regulations in Los Angeles is explored in greater detail in a White Paper prepared by Americans for Safe Access (ASA) and the Greater Los Angeles Collective Alliance (GLACA). I will publish a more detailed analysis of the City Attorney’s draft ordinance when a draft incorporating today’s changes in available (probably next week).

The City Attorney’s intransigence on this issue may be due, in large part, to his fundamental opposition to medical cannabis in the city. ASA released documents today showing that Mr. Trutanich will be a headliner at a training luncheon for local law enforcement entitled “Eradicating Medical Cannabis Dispensaries in Los Angeles and Los Angeles County” on October 8. I reminded PLUM Committee members to consider the bias reflected by participation in an event like this when considering the City Attorney’s analysis of medical cannabis law. Is he working with the City Council to regulate safe access, or at cross-purposes to eradicate it?

Not all of the debate today was about the minutia of the Health and Safety Code and its interpretation in court. Councilmember Dennis Zine got some chuckles when he defended his recent radio comments, in which he referred to collective operators who are breaking the law as “greedy bastards.” He also surprised advocates by calling on the City Attorney’s office to call in the Drug Enforcement Administration to close recalcitrant collectives that refuse to close after the denial of their hardship application. This drew condemnation from Dege Coutee of the Patients Advocacy Network, and audible boos from the crowd.

Councilmember’s Zine’s suggestion is more likely to be the result frustration than an articulation of a new policy. He made his initial motion to study regulations in 2005. The issue has been before the Committee numerous times, usually with long and passionate debate. He and his colleagues are impatient for an ordinance – which may be why they are willing to move forward with a flawed policy, in lieu of more inertia. We can only hope Councilmembers bring fresh eyes and open minds to the coming debate in the Public Safety Committee and before the full City Council.

Time to make your voices heard folks. Time for smash mouth football!

Fight on!

Best,

GB

[LemonHerb]

Well that doesn't sounds like something to be happy about. Seems like a lot of that kind of news lately.

[Holistic Harvest]

Below is a link to listen to the recorded mtg on 9/29. Worth a listen. It is from Brett at MMJ news. It is a yahoo group definitely worth subscribing to, he takes all the mmj news on a daily basis and emails it to you!

Here is the info to subscribe:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/mmjnews/

Los Angeles PLUM Committee To Discuss Medical Marijuana Ordinance Tu
Posted by: "post2news" brettsaddress-test1@yahoo.com post2news
Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:15 pm (PDT)


If you missed today's Los Angeles Planning and Land Use Management
Committee meeting today the audio is archived @
http://lacity.granicus.com/MediaPlay...3&clip_id=6790

Very interesting discussion, well worth a listen. Hear councilmember
Zine suggest that the DEA be bought in to close collectives the city
wants closed but won't close on their own.

The amount of false information given is amazing.

The medical marijuana dispensary hardship application hearing begins at
approximately 38:57 of the audio.

Hear councilmmber Zine say maybe we should call in the DEA after
councilmember Huizar speaks at 1:03 of the audio.

The discussion on the medical marijuana ordinance starts at
approximately 1:08:45 of the audio.

Peace

Brett

[BrattonBasher]

We used to consider Zine a friend of MMJ.

[tanja]

oh NO!!! Whats the problem here? Can anyone tell me are other states having as much trouble w/ their elected officals as we? Can believe it!
T

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

We used to consider Zine a friend of MMJ.

I remember y'all saying that. Is Zine another spineless turncoat or what?

[cephas]

Once they get around the other politicians they make new friends, better friends.

Here is a true story about a politician.

My family's auto repair business has been in business in IB Ca for 50 years next month. One of our best and longest customers is a current US Congressmen, former mayor of Imperial Beach (that makes him easy to find and honestly I'm sick of keeping this guy's secrets, he has no loyalty to me, I have none to him.), my father and him have been business associates for over 20 years, he became a customer because his father was a customer before him.

When I was running the business, I would see him about once 1 a months or so, normally to repair damage done to his car from the minor accidents he gets into after leaving political functions. When he would bring any of his cars in we would talk, off the record, just friends. He would tell me about how drunk he was coming home from the function, he would tell me about how the police never stopped him. He would tell me about how he only ran for Congress because as he was a former senator, he would continue to get his pay for life, so he might as well still serve...even if it was "all a big joke" (his words), plus, he said, being semi-retired and being around his family all day was more stressful then politics, so why not go back into politics, besides as a Congressmen or Senator, he could practically guarantee his daughter acceptance to any university she wanted to go to, as well as reduced tuition payments, and a higher GPA....... He would tell me about how at the functions he would always go outside and smoke a J with other members of our state senate and congress, as well as members of the police dept, before driving home, "because pot mellows me out if I have been drinking.". We had lots of conversations about how he has been a regular MJ smoker since his teens, and feel the illegality of MJ is ridiculous.

When I began to attempt to open a Co-Op in IB I called this man, who has had all theses conversations with me, this man whose drunk driving damages I have repaired and kept quiet do as to not harm him politically, this man who has asked me to hook up for him on other occasions...

He will not return mine, or my father's phone calls. I have talked to both his wife and daughter to try to find out why, since all I want is to talk like friends as we have already done many many times over the years, if not support perhaps he could give me advice. His family tells me they do not know what is going on, he won't talk to them about it either...He leaves the room, or changes the subject... After they tell me this, they ask if I can get them anything good. That is when I end the conversation.

Obviously he has other friends, more important friends, and he obviously owes them more loyalty than he does me. And yes if any of you are wondering he is a republican.

Another word, a synonym, for politician, is opportunist. That is what they are, that is why they go into the fields they do, they are opportunists. This man, this representative of our government, has admitted to me that he has made a career in politics because working a "real" job is more work than he wants to do.

Does that mean give up cause they won't help. No. It means judge them for what they are, and do not ever trust them, all the while working to show them the opportunities are better on our side than their's... We have made more progress already than anybody thought we could, without these people's help....we can go the rest of the way without it as well, eventually just like with alcohol prohibition, they will realize it is a losing battle and they will give in, as long as we don't give up.

Hey here's an idea, why don't we try to get something on the ballot that forces mandatory drug testing for all "Public servants"...bet they would have a much harder time justifying how they treat us and their attitudes towards MJ, and drugs in general, if the general public knew what substances were flowing through theses people's veins....

[ShiningSkull]

Friend to the Los Angeles MMJ community!
Mr. Zine, everybody!

Here he is with our sisters from the WAMM rally. Check his eyes - kinda creepy. In retrospect.

[bushka]

Ha ha ha

[Jebediah.Ruckus]

Originally Posted by Greenbud

Here's a good summary of today's events:


Like his predecessor, City Attorney Carmen Trutanich insists that sales of medical cannabis and storefront facilities that provide it to members of patients’ collectives and cooperatives are illegal. As a result of this faulty interpretation of law, the City Attorney’s staff developed a draft ordinance that seeks to regulate the collective cultivation of medical cannabis, instead of the storefront facilities from which medicine is provided. Trutanich’s position is in conflict with guidelines published by the California Attorney General last year and a growing body of case law.

[/I]

Clearly we need to vote in stronger initiatives so there is no question as to the legality. This small minded attourney may be having trouble pulling his head out of his ass, but we will surely make it clear to him in 2010 that the rule of the ballot box is the only constitutional premise we require to run a government. His opinion isn't important - nobody cares. He gets just one vote, like everybody else. His side lost at the ballot box, and he has a personal vendetta - that's fine, everybody is entitled to an opinion. It doesn't change the facts.

The real show will start when California overwhelmingly strengthens MMJ laws. There will be no question as to the legality of these shops after election day, 2010.

If, at that time, he does not change his tune, he becomes dangerously close to the pen-ultimate taboo among public officals: A TRAITOR TO THE RULE OF LAW.


That being said, he seems to be perfectly content to advocate the use of semi-automatic weapons and data-mining against completely peaceful individuals - a clear violation of the common law as well as the 4th ammendment.

So-called public servants make me sick. Your job is NOT TO ENFORCE YOUR OPINION. YOUR JOB IS TO ENFORCE OUR OPINION. Learn it, live it, love it, or GET THE FUCK OUT.

[steveadams203]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

We used to consider Zine a friend of MMJ.

Yeah, remember when you all villified me when I juxtaposed Dennis Zine's photo next to his identical james bond super villan counterpart?

Dennis Zine was never a friend to MMJ patietns, and he never will be, but than again, what else would you expect from an ex-cop?

[cllindner]

I appreciate Greenbud's report. Like altogether too many other threads, the reaction here are responders screaming about the injustice of it all, hating politicians and ragging on lawyers. In other words, other than blowing off some psychological stress for the writer....useless.

Don Duncan, the SoCal head of ASA, and I had a long phone conversation this evening, and the two of us, who probably know more about the City Council's machinations than anybody else on Weedtracker, are very very worried that this bizarre ordinance will be passed, more or less in its current form.

If you want to make an intelligent and necessary contribution to stopping this proposed ordinance, do this: if you are in the City of Los Angeles (and yes, that includes the Valley), dial "311" and you will get a City Hall operator. If you do not know who your councilman is, give the 311 operator your address, and he/she will tell you which member represents you. Then, politely, and I mean really politely, ask to be connected with the Council Member's office. If you are a patient, you will eventually be connected with a staff member.

Tell the staff member that you are a medical marijuana patient and are very concerned that the new proposed marijuana dispensary ordinance allows the police to look through patient records without any warrant or other judicial order, i.e., more or less at their whim. Below is the pertinent language that you want to object to (identify it as Section 46.71):

SEC.46.71. INSPECTION AUTHORITY AND ENFORCEMENT. The Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety and the Los Angeles Police Department shall have the right to enter the Medical Marijuana Cooperative/Collective from time to time unannounced for the purpose of making reasonable inspections to observe and enforce compliance with this Article and all laws of the City and State of California. An outstanding Order to Comply from the Department of Building and Safety shall constitute a violation of this Code.

Physician's Recommendations in California are the equivalent of medical prescriptions. Patients possessing physician recommendations should not be subject to law enforcement officers invading their privacy without seeking permission from a judicial officer, e.g., possessing a court order, a search warrant or a valid subpoena issued subject to a motion to quash on privacy or search and seizure grounds.

This section is in direct conflict with Article 1, Section 1 of the California Constitution. which states:

“All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.”

This ordinance permits the police at their whim to go through, copy, and/or seize patient records from the medical marijuana collectives without any finding of probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or a finding by a judge based on a sworn affidavit by a police officer that a review of a particular record is necessary.

Since the staffer will be pretty clueless about this subject dear to your hearts, you should add that marijuana dispensaries are defined as "providers" under the federal HIPAA medical privacy laws, and that you believe this ordinance invades your medical privacy rights under federal law, and that you object to an attempt by a local city council to sidestep medical privacy protections........, and that you don't think that that is right.

I suspect that roughly 30 to 40 percent of the average clinic's patient population can be categorized as "stoners" who have been able to obtain a physician's recommendation (yeah, I know, you're legit...but then I represent a lot of stoners who blow it and end up getting prosecuted anyhow). If you are a real medical patient with a very real condition, take the time to protect your privacy rights. If you are stoner, please try to pull it together and politely object to this proposed law, even if the reason to smoke is to quell your insomnia and help you to add weight through pizza and ice cream cravings. Oh, and I have been smoking longer than you have been alive, so please don't get real self-righteous, OK?

We actually may get stuck with this law in the very near future, unless objections are heard and council members start thinking about the tradeoffs in capping down on the proliferation of clinics. Please help out constructively. Thank you.

Charles L. "Chuck" Lindner
Attorney at Law
Santa Monica

[ShiningSkull]

...blowing off some psychological stress for the writer....useless?

[silvercloud]

clinder ,thanks for the reality flashback ~ clinics vs trade- offs ,right ? ~ let's '"P R O L I F E R A T E"' and work off those trades ~ best defense is a better offense ~ that is all

[cllindner]

Originally Posted by ShiningSkull

...blowing off some psychological stress for the writer....useless?

From the standpoint of getting anything done, certainly.....It's like not voting because "voting dosen't change anything". Really? You think that reduction in federal enforcement in CA just occurred by chance? Either participate, or you accept the consequences of not participating....in this case, the disappearance of your favorite dispensary.

Chuck Lindner
Attorney at Law
Santa Monica

[ShiningSkull]

Thanks for providing the terrific info, cllindner.
All of us in the City of Los Angeles should make the call.


Ok, so here it is without the "reality flashback" parts lol

If you are in the City of Los Angeles, dial "311" and you will get a City Hall operator.

If you do not know who your councilman is, give the 311 operator your address, and he/she will tell you which member represents you.

Politely ask to be connected with the Council Member's office. If you are a patient, you will eventually be connected with a staff member.

Tell the staff member:

I'm a medical marijuana patient and I'm very concerned that the new proposed marijuana dispensary ordinance will allow the police to look through patient records, without any warrant or other judicial order. Specifically, I'm objecting to Section 46.71.

Go as far as you want with any or all of the rest of this...

In California, Physician's Recommendations are just like medical prescriptions.

Patients like me, who have a physician's recommendation should not be subject to law enforcement officers invading our privacy, especially when they have no court order, search warrant or a valid subpoena.

Section 46.71 is also in direct conflict with Article 1, Section 1 of the California Constitution, which states:
“All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.”

This ordinance will permit police, at their whim, to go through, copy, and/or seize patient records from medical marijuana collectives.

Police will be able to seize patient records without any finding of probable cause to even believe that a crime has been committed.

Federal HIPAA medical privacy laws define marijuana dispensaries as "providers." Therefore, I believe this ordinance invades my medical privacy rights under federal law.

I object to the attempt by a local city council to sidestep medical privacy protections through SEC.46.71.



Here it is for reference:
SEC.46.71. INSPECTION AUTHORITY AND ENFORCEMENT. The Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety and the Los Angeles Police Department shall have the right to enter the Medical Marijuana Cooperative/Collective from time to time unannounced for the purpose of making reasonable inspections to observe and enforce compliance with this Article and all laws of the City and State of California. An outstanding Order to Comply from the Department of Building and Safety shall constitute a violation of this Code.


cllindner, any edits you would make? anything to add or change?

[ShiningSkull]

Originally Posted by cllindner

From the standpoint of getting anything done, certainly.....

Well, I suppose there are other reasons for posting that are just as valid.

[Cubed]

Focus please!

This may be the most important call you make. Losing access to collectives isn't an option to some. Don't let them rob you of your collective or cause a cost increase. Let's tell them that this a violation of our civil rights.

If we don't and slack off, who knows what they will cut out from the new regs?

Don't cry after, be proactive and make the call on Monday. Now is the time YOU count.

For all of us.

[ShiningSkull]

Originally Posted by Cubed

Focus please!

Who's not focused? I just wrote up the script!

Geez. This thread.

[studlysemite]

Originally Posted by cllindner

From the standpoint of getting anything done, certainly.....It's like not voting because "voting dosen't change anything". Really? You think that reduction in federal enforcement in CA just occurred by chance? Either participate, or you accept the consequences of not participating....in this case, the disappearance of your favorite dispensary.

Chuck Lindner
Attorney at Law
Santa Monica

Everybody reading this thread should email the city council RIGHT AWAY like I did. I also posted Ed Reynes email on my facebook status. ( councilmember.reyes@lacity.org ) That way everybody that I know online knows about this issue and if they want to do something they can do so easily. I also emailed all my friends who are patients.

You may think it doesn't do any good, that its a waste of time. Well, let me tell you I have been on this board for 3 years. 2 years ago there were raids all over the place in SoCal and people were freaking out about the DEA. One day I heard about a protest on Santa Monica & Vine where a clinic got raided and I ran down to join it, because I had nothing better to do and I thought it might be fun. That protest got on the news.

I was stunned that people in the media actually thought this was news! A formerly passive patient, I was now an activist.

So then I wrote an email to Diane Fienstein (US Senator). Didn't think I would get a result or answer but I did! (it was very vague, but basically positive, and written by her aide.) I posted the result here on this board.

Flashforward to 2009.. I forgot about the whole thing but those protests and letters to Feinstein had this result: when 1.5 years later Obama was elected, he called off the DEA attack dogs. I'm sure it was at the behest of Senator Feinstein and/or other politicians in Washington to listened to the voters in California. I'm not naive to think they were doing out of the goodness of their heart --- it was because busting patients MADE THEM LOOK BAD. There is nothing a politician hates more than looking like an idiot because it makes people loose faith in their leadership.

The key to winning against the nimrods at the LA City Council is to let them know, in no uncertain terms, that we are going to take action against them. They can pass their stupid ordinance to look cool to the police bureaucracy but we have to let them know there will be negative attention on them -- Reyes, Zine, the DA, whoever else drafted this nonsense.

So let them know that they will look like fools instead of the bad-asses that they so hope. I relate this long story to let you know it worked with the DEA 2 years ago so it will work even faster with local politicians.

Secondly, in your email LA City Hall has to know we will be hounding them FOR THE REST OF THEIR CAREERS about this issue. So it would be wise to drop their b.s. ordinance or write one along with ASA and the people it affects in mind, instead of giving them lip service like they are now.

Thirdly, your email should let them know that Mr. Linder and the other MMJ attorneys, as well as ASA, would be glad to gain some notoriety and fame in suing the city of LA. When they win, the defeat will embarass these policitians again if they're still in office.

Lastly your e-mail should be polite and not angry like my post. People don't really listen to you logically if you yell at at them or write using bad grammar or ALL CAPS.

So everyone reading this: if you enjoy what we have in L.A. something that the rest of the nation dreams of --- including Fire OG, 4gram eights and the latest clone deals, PLEASE TAKE 2 MINUTES and click here http://lacity.org/lacity/YourGovernm...ncil/index.htm and send an email to city hall instead of checking out the latest deals on 1/8ths.

Also please don't doubt protests. They achieve their effect in an indirect way against the target in that they get OTHER PEOPLE who aren't as passionate as you to start to question the target, and that can effect policy.

[GROWIN BITCH]

Originally Posted by cllindner

I appreciate Greenbud's report. Like altogether too many other threads, the reaction here are responders screaming about the injustice of it all, hating politicians and ragging on lawyers. In other words, other than blowing off some psychological stress for the writer....useless.

Don Duncan, the SoCal head of ASA, and I had a long phone conversation this evening, and the two of us, who probably know more about the City Council's machinations than anybody else on Weedtracker, are very very worried that this bizarre ordinance will be passed, more or less in its current form.

If you want to make an intelligent and necessary contribution to stopping this proposed ordinance, do this: if you are in the City of Los Angeles (and yes, that includes the Valley), dial "311" and you will get a City Hall operator. If you do not know who your councilman is, give the 311 operator your address, and he/she will tell you which member represents you. Then, politely, and I mean really politely, ask to be connected with the Council Member's office. If you are a patient, you will eventually be connected with a staff member.

Tell the staff member that you are a medical marijuana patient and are very concerned that the new proposed marijuana dispensary ordinance allows the police to look through patient records without any warrant or other judicial order, i.e., more or less at their whim. Below is the pertinent language that you want to object to (identify it as Section 46.71):

SEC.46.71. INSPECTION AUTHORITY AND ENFORCEMENT. The Los Angeles Department of Building and Safety and the Los Angeles Police Department shall have the right to enter the Medical Marijuana Cooperative/Collective from time to time unannounced for the purpose of making reasonable inspections to observe and enforce compliance with this Article and all laws of the City and State of California. An outstanding Order to Comply from the Department of Building and Safety shall constitute a violation of this Code.

Physician's Recommendations in California are the equivalent of medical prescriptions. Patients possessing physician recommendations should not be subject to law enforcement officers invading their privacy without seeking permission from a judicial officer, e.g., possessing a court order, a search warrant or a valid subpoena issued subject to a motion to quash on privacy or search and seizure grounds.

This section is in direct conflict with Article 1, Section 1 of the California Constitution. which states:

“All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.”

This ordinance permits the police at their whim to go through, copy, and/or seize patient records from the medical marijuana collectives without any finding of probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed, or a finding by a judge based on a sworn affidavit by a police officer that a review of a particular record is necessary.

Since the staffer will be pretty clueless about this subject dear to your hearts, you should add that marijuana dispensaries are defined as "providers" under the federal HIPAA medical privacy laws, and that you believe this ordinance invades your medical privacy rights under federal law, and that you object to an attempt by a local city council to sidestep medical privacy protections........, and that you don't think that that is right.

I suspect that roughly 30 to 40 percent of the average clinic's patient population can be categorized as "stoners" who have been able to obtain a physician's recommendation (yeah, I know, you're legit...but then I represent a lot of stoners who blow it and end up getting prosecuted anyhow). If you are a real medical patient with a very real condition, take the time to protect your privacy rights. If you are stoner, please try to pull it together and politely object to this proposed law, even if the reason to smoke is to quell your insomnia and help you to add weight through pizza and ice cream cravings. Oh, and I have been smoking longer than you have been alive, so please don't get real self-righteous, OK?

We actually may get stuck with this law in the very near future, unless objections are heard and council members start thinking about the tradeoffs in capping down on the proliferation of clinics. Please help out constructively. Thank you.

Charles L. "Chuck" Lindner
Attorney at Law
Santa Monica

This is a nice post, but I have one question.

Trying to get protection under Federal Hippa laws, wouldnt the DA ( or who ever is the prosecuter ) argue against the movement that under federal law it is illegal, and thus can not use federal law to protect the information?

[Smilodon]

Originally Posted by cllindner

........ Either participate, or you accept the consequences of not participating....

Chuck Lindner
Attorney at Law
Santa Monica

Thank you Chuck, again the truth in simple, yet elegant terms. This may be my new signature.

[ecxtky]

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

We used to consider Zine a friend of MMJ.

with enough money, anyone can be your friend or foe... its sad

[cannadyke]

the important thing is for all of us to take action. spend a few minutes and write your councilmember an email or call them, do the same w/ the city attorney's office. go to the protest if you can. if the number of people that are here on WT actually voice their opinions, we have a better chance of the city council considering our side. 5 minutes of your time will help to ensure safe access for all.