[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by OldTroll

I’m surprised that you think that I’ve been “backing up Berger, Cooley, and Trutanich.” I have not been defending what Mr. Berger said in his interview with Shira Lazar. What I did say was, “If you listen closely to Mr. Berger it is difficult to find fault with anything that he says in this video” and I stand by that statement.

Shira Lazar is not a very good interviewer and she certainly didn’t put any pressure on Berger, and he understandably took advantage of the situation to present a very effective face to the general public.

Regardless of the ranting of the likes of VDC, j32b, & C, I continue to think that showing the public that marijuana users can be responsible citizens is more productive than name calling and nit picking.

There are many active WTers that are able to address both the MMJ users as well as the recreational users without raising any hackles …. but that requires a talent which most of us do not posses. We cannot all be like Smilodon and others, but we sure can try to listen and act with open minds.

-OT

The way I see it they have poisoned the discourse, and are slandering MMJ by utilizing the bully pulpit, and therefore avoiding anything close to a balanced discussion. Since the big Trutanich/Cooley announcements and dog and pony shows they have fed the press a one-sided and straw-man argument that Berger does a fine job of making sound reasonable. If you took these men at their word they would seem to be fine public servants doing the lords work. We and the others on WT know they are manipulating this. When a cancer patient tried to question Trutanich at a meeting two weeks ago he was an ASSHOLE to her, and distorted and deflected. Now after watching this moronic softball interview you are giving Berger and company some kudos for sounding reasonable, well they gave up any freaking objectivity points with me when Trutanich sprayed the Raid bottle! Thats the way I feel. If Trutanich/Berger agree to a civil debate on the facts without deceptive and non-germaine visual aid use, then they would gain back a measure of my respect.

[Pico+Barrington Collective]

he went off subject so many times!! And he compared us to "gangs"

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by OldTroll

VooDooChile & cephas & joe32blow - - -

Your passion is recognized and appreciated, however all you’re doing is raising a dust storm.

Arguing politics, even in a political forum, seldom accomplishes anything. Rational discussion oi politics often changes minds. Preaching to the choir (that means pointing your polemics at people that already agree with you) may even cause some of the choir to leave your camp because you can become an embarrassment.

If you think that name-calling and arguing like middle-schoolers with an overload of estrogen will improve the public image of the Marijuana Community, then carry on …. but ….

It is my considered opinion that the Marijuana Community, both medical and recreational, would benefit from working at influencing government and the public by presenting a clean and shiny face. Arguing like right-wing Nazis or bleeding heart liberals accomplishes very little. Adult discussions can change many minds.

-OT

Although my screen name is old Troll, I think that the three of you (VooDoo Chile & cephas & joe32blow) are trolls and since the first rule of the ‘net is DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS, do not expect any further responses from me on this thread.

P.S. Charlie Beck is going to be your next Chief of Police. That should take your minds off of Mr. Berger for awhile.

Thus Spoketh The Old Untroll Troll.

[cephas]

I have conceded to you 3 times now Old Troll, I have asked for your plans to further the movement, 3 times now. Yet you call me names, though I have not called you one, and you avoid my questions while doing it. Possibly I write too much and you just don't want to read it all and as such do not even realize what you are doing. Shame on me for being able to type fast.

It seems you would rather continue to insult me, and others who have their money where their mouth is, than provide such information or ideas.

The only rants here are yours.

The only name calling is by you.

The only person to find difficulty disagreeing with Mr. Berger's words is you.

You talk about positive media coverage.

What are you doing to gain that?

You talk about reasonable discussion among adults.

Yet, you are the one who called people children "with too much estrogen", and disagree with talking politics with friends and family.

Just like Mr. Berger your words and actions do not agree with each other.

People you mention as worth listening to, rep me. Who reps you? Not too many people I would guess. Perhaps you will say that is because you are above the popularity contest....once again I bow to your superiority.

You say it would be better to be a responsible citizen than act like me.

I am a home owner, and you?

I own my own business, and you?

I rescue animals, you?

Donate time the the big brothers, and you?

I care for a cancer patient, and a paraplegic up here in the mountains. Who do you care for?

I can point to well over 100 people who I have personally influenced, both through my words and actions, to be positive about MMJ; People who were previously negative. People who hold sway over the opinions of others, including several respected authoritative members of the Mormon Church, protestant pastors, captains of industry, school teachers and college professors. In other words the very people who must be swayed to support legalization before it can happen.

How many people's minds have you changed?

You say it would be better to get positive media coverage. I am actively involved in attaining such. Are you?

From the comments posted to my page, and the PMs that flood my box, to the responses I get from the people I talk to on the street, and yes, the family members who once disagreed with me, but do not any longer, I can put proof to my words and actions in this movement. I can also say the only person I have knowingly alienated through this is you.

For that I am proud, as what you are saying is foolish and without thought, but is filled with trite colloquialisms, like "preaching to the choir" and inflammatory words like "rant", all the while accusing others of using such tactics.

Shame on you sir.

I asked you where I called you a name, you avoided my question.

As you avoid all my questions.

I never said it was wrong to be prepared for an interview. What I said was it is wrong to believe what a person says simply because they are prepared, and use the proper phrasings and "trust-inspiring" mannerisms/body language, since those things can be too easily manipulated. I also said it is wrong for the DA's office to use such extreme, and manipulative measures.

Why is it wrong? Because it does not allow for a level playing field, and I believe very sincerely the manipulation of voters and public opinion by these tactics is wrong. Especially since the end result of the manipulation does nothing to benefit said populace.

You disagree? Provide an example.

You are nitpicking my words in a very trivial and shallow way sir. For no purpose other than to prove your own contrary opinion right. An opinion that holds no benefit to this movement.

You disagree.

Excellent.

Let us have a discussion (or it's synonym: argument) between open minded intelligent adults, so please, demonstrate, through examples not colloquialisms (I assume you know what this is), or inflammatory words, how I am wrong.

Please illuminate us all, as to how giving credibility to the words coming out of the DA's office will further MMJ. Please demonstrate how shutting down "about 100%" of the Co-Ops, and making cancer patients grow their own medicine will help. Or do you not think that is exactly what Mr. Berger is talking about doing.

Perhaps you can demonstrate how what Mr. Berger is saying is true. Can you give me the name of a Co-Op that was raided because of "Public nuisance", or can you illuminate me on how a guideline and a law is the same thing? Maybe you can site examples of the work LA had been doing during the moratorium (that was found to be illegal because the cit did not follow it's own procedures properly...), that qualifies their struggle.

Possibly you can open my mind as to how not analyzing statements can lead to better understanding and free-er thought.

Or perhaps you simply like when people lie to you in a nice voice. I prefer to be told the truth, even if the person telling me is unpleasant and gruff.

Guess that makes me immature, and from your earlier words, a girl.

Coming from you I will take that as a compliment. A person who I respect greatly once said, "A child shall lead them", and I have met a good many women in my life who I respect and admire strongly, so again, thank you.

[OldTroll]

Originally Posted by cephas

I have conceded to you 3 times now Old Troll, I have asked for your plans to further the movement, 3 times now. Yet you call me names, though I have not called you one, and you avoid my questions while doing it. Possibly I write too much and you just don't want to read it all and as such do not even realize what you are doing. .… <snip - didn’t read any further>

I don’t have any plans to further the movement and didn’t realize that you were looking to me for guidance.

If I called you any names, then I apologize …. it was not intentional. I haven’t accused you of calling me names because I don’t think that you have called me names.

Many times I’ve referred to the nit picking and name calling that many MMJ supporters resort to using when "countering" statements made by the anti-marijuana people …. as can be seen in this thread and others … because I don’t think that making fun of Mr. Berger’s accent of calling him an A$$HOLE is very productive.

No need for you or vdc to continuing trolling …. I will not bite.

[SoaringSativa]

"we're not trying to win a popularity contest, we are trying to enforce the law"

I.E. - we do what we want, not what the people want

[SFV]

ok i cannot stand this fuck! he comes to my country in my city and has the nerve to tell me how laws should be. i cannot listen to this guy...he compares dispenceries to gangs!!!! are you kiddidng me? legalize it industrial and smokable...the cat is out of the bag...there is too much money to be made....we are the only industrialized nation that does not produce industrial hemp....and it is because of people like this...

fyi its against the law to get high on oxycontin demerol vicoden and valium...viagra is abusded too and used recreationally....this guy and his ideals are a joke...prescription drug abuse is rampant in our society.....

he wants his will to be law not the will of the people....heaven forbid someone makes money from it...

this guy and our politicians are a joke....maybe if they put their moneis and efforts into more police we wouldnt have kids getting shot at homecoming games.....instead they spend it on raids and eradication....

every time i hear this guy i get angry....i should be in that office not him ...he wasnt even born in this country...it makes me ill.....

sorry i may rub some wrong here but i feel that in certain instances in order to hold a public office you should be a natural born citizen of this country...........

hell the way i see it if it wasnt for my grandfather and his generation he might well speaking german...how dare he come to our soil and impose his will.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by OldTroll

I don’t have any plans to further the movement and didn’t realize that you were looking to me for guidance.

If I called you any names, then I apologize …. it was not intentional. I haven’t accused you of calling me names because I don’t think that you have called me names.

Many times I’ve referred to the nit picking and name calling that many MMJ supporters resort to using when "countering" statements made by the anti-marijuana people …. as can be seen in this thread and others … because I don’t think that making fun of Mr. Berger’s accent of calling him an A$$HOLE is very productive.

No need for you or vdc to continuing trolling …. I will not bite.

But, but, you said that in your last post! What gives?

[cephas]

Originally Posted by OldTroll

I don’t have any plans to further the movement and didn’t realize that you were looking to me for guidance.

If I called you any names, then I apologize …. it was not intentional. I haven’t accused you of calling me names because I don’t think that you have called me names.

Many times I’ve referred to the nit picking and name calling that many MMJ supporters resort to using when "countering" statements made by the anti-marijuana people …. as can be seen in this thread and others … because I don’t think that making fun of Mr. Berger’s accent of calling him an A$$HOLE is very productive.

No need for you or vdc to continuing trolling …. I will not bite.

Actually I was attempting to taunt you into admitting you do not have anything helpful to say.

Thank you for being susceptible to manipulation.

I have read through your 88 posts (as of this writing) and realize this is something that bothers you, thank you for admitting this. What is interesting is I agree with you; When we are being interviewed on camera, or speaking at city council meetings, or to reporters and/or or family and friends.

The difference between us, is I differentiate between all/any of that, and this. A private, patient's only, forum.

Here we should be able to vent, so we can keep the frustration to ourselves elsewhere. Here we should be safe to speak our mind even if it is immature and foul mouthed sometimes. I think most of us understand that language and behavior is not appropriate when out in public.

Despite what you may think from your readings, I know for a fact that VDC is a sterling example of how to behave in public. Intelligent, nicely dressed, and well-spoken. She may not look like a politician or a lawyer, she does look like a responsible member of society. When she came into a small conflict with an officer over jaywalking at city hall, she responded politely and respectfully. Have you researched her posts and read the letter she wrote, excellently, and politically, well phrased.

Did you know that?

The rest of us do.

Continue trolling VDC! If you can be accused of it, I think it's cool!

[Smilodon]

well it is clear that VDC is a troll, I have been caught in her nets for quite awhile, lol. I appear to have plenty of company. If you don't believe me, look at her start date, and look at her rep. Someone loves the girl, hehe. I suspect it is a lot of someones, actually.

[joe32blow]

Originally Posted by OldTroll

I don’t have any plans to further the movement and didn’t realize that you were looking to me for guidance.

If I called you any names, then I apologize …. it was not intentional. I haven’t accused you of calling me names because I don’t think that you have called me names.

Many times I’ve referred to the nit picking and name calling that many MMJ supporters resort to using when "countering" statements made by the anti-marijuana people …. as can be seen in this thread and others … because I don’t think that making fun of Mr. Berger’s accent of calling him an A$$HOLE is very productive.

No need for you or vdc to continuing trolling …. I will not bite.

What a load of BS. First this person claims that he hasn't called anyone names and then he uses the word "trolling" to describe people's statements.

Sorry but
the use of the word "trolling" and "troll" (which he's also used), is just
another logical fallacy which "Old Troll" is using to try and discredit others,
obviously because there is no substance to his statements.

[tomo7]

such claims should be reported or ignored........... not posted. Please stay on topic.
Thank you.

[Masonic Chronic]

I believe that the door is now WIDE OPEN to sue to the L.A. attorney's office if they support or disregard any of the illegal search and seizure tactics the lapd is using against our dispensaries

[Skinzy420]

I would have to say I feel a lot of patients are being violated on their civil rights!

[Justonevoice]

Originally Posted by OldTroll

I don’t have any plans to further the movement and didn’t realize that you were looking to me for guidance.

If I called you any names, then I apologize …. it was not intentional. I haven’t accused you of calling me names because I don’t think that you have called me names.

Many times I’ve referred to the nit picking and name calling that many MMJ supporters resort to using when "countering" statements made by the anti-marijuana people …. as can be seen in this thread and others … because I don’t think that making fun of Mr. Berger’s accent of calling him an A$$HOLE is very productive.

No need for you or vdc to continuing trolling …. I will not bite.

Why not? It takes every patient to stand up and help that can,Can You?

[OldTroll]

Originally Posted by Justonevoice

Why not? It takes every patient to stand up and help that can,Can You?

never mind