WeedTRACKER

BrattonBasher · 09-29-2009, 09:45 AM

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/W...90926-298.html

I stumbled upon this article this morning. I disagree with some of it, but this author truly knows the subject matter. Bless You Jack Herer!!! He gave a stirring speech about how money has infected our movement, then had the heart attack. I have opined many times how I distrust the new push to legalize MJ for tax and money reasons, and I am heartened and proud that the Great Jack Herer agrees with me. I am sickened to see MPP on Fox News pushing the money bullshit to the sheep that watch Fox News (baaa baaa, I watch Fox News)! I strongly disagree with the authors negative view on MMJ, and I just don't see this bias against growing your own in California like they refer to in Arizona. Please read the article and post your thoughts.

Smilodon · 09-29-2009, 12:25 PM

That is a long, but interesting read. There were several inconsistencies I saw so I chased one down:

Article

"... and the CRRH is responsible for making sure we adult Americans never get the right to grow our own Marijuana so that Stanford and his Cannabusiness buddies can continue to profit at our expense."

Campaign for the Restoration and Regulation of Hemp Website

"CRRH's Cannabis Tax Acts (CTA) would comprehensively reform marijuana laws by regulating and taxing adult sales; licensing the cultivation of the drug for sale in adult-only businesses; allowing adults to grow their own and farmers to grow industrial hemp without license; and letting doctors prescribe untaxed cannabis to patients suffering from a variety of illnesses and injuries." (my bold)

I had a hard time believing him after that. It is clear that the rec mills and some of those "Cannabusiness" guys have a vested interest and that one regulation in Arizona was very disturbing. I just can't see anything getting passed that would prohibit growing your own. LOL, that would be a whole other campaign for me.

That Jack would support his own initiative is not unusual, in fact it sounds like the best one. I would prefer not to have my meds taxed. I really can't see how you can avoid taxing recreational use though.

I may have made the mistake of endorsing initiatives that have a negative effect. I guess I need to read them more closely and review my thoughts.

So what happens if all three of the legalization propositions are passed? Do they take the one with the most votes or is there some process?

BrattonBasher · 09-29-2009, 12:35 PM

The only legalization initiative I support is Jacks, but I thought his was DOA.

baby magic · 09-29-2009, 02:12 PM

Take what u can get for now. Then fix after. politics suck arguing over a seed/plant ! what a world we live in be happy

VooDoo Chile · 09-29-2009, 06:43 PM

Interesting read, for sure. A lot to chew on, though. Personally I can totally see how and why some folks would want to monopolize this clearly profitable industry. But I also don't think that it's as simple as this dude's making it out to be. Simply stated, I think that if given the choice between growing their own and purchasing marijuana, the vast majority of people would rather buy it themselves.

The beer analogy he uses in the article serves as a great example of this phenomenon. Anybody can brew their own beer. How many people actually do it? A small fraction of America's beer drinkers. I firmly believe the same is true for marijuana. People pay for the convenience. I know that's one of the reasons why I don't grow my own meds.

Beyond that, I don't see why this has to be such a black and white issue. Someday I'd like to grow my own meds, but even if I did, I don't think I'd ever subsist solely on the fruits of my own labor. Can't we grow our own meds and purchase them at the same time?

**cephas** · 09-29-2009, 07:07 PM

From the politicians I have talked to it is the growing aspect they fear most. They fear what they can't control and that can't really be controlled. Same thing with taxes, they are the ones who want them even if they aren't coming out and saying it directly; but it is the politicians who are most interested in having that conversation...

In reality (as VDC said), most people will not grow regardless if allowed or not, the politicians don't seem to understand that though, they think every body will grow it and hand it out to kids on play grounds for free....I'm exaggerating but not as much as you may think.

As to the moneygrubbers wanting to keep us from growing ourselves, that is obviously happening too,...that article makes that much very apparent...plenty to think about for sure...

And yeah, Jack's initiative would be the best to back it looks like right now....and I have had the same thought as to all initiatives passing at once, that might cause some problems....

joe32blow · 09-29-2009, 11:29 PM

I don't think it should be taxed any differently than any other medication, except that taxation does in some way help legitimize it.

With government coffers gutted at the moment, taxation is the carrot
that may make them losen up controls.

LA seemed to stop shutting down coops for awhile. They say it's because
they are drafting new regulation, but the real reason mostly likely has
something to do with tax revenue.

Ronald Regean said that politicians were like those that practiced the oldest
profession (prostitutes). They will sell their souls for money. I'd rather
have it taxed and accessible, then not accessible at all.

Sir smokes-A-Lot · 09-30-2009, 06:53 AM

Yeah I can grow my own but its probably not going to turn out like some dank I get from dispenseries so thats why I choose to buy it. The stuff we buy from dispenseries is grown buy people who know what they are doing it seems. There never going to legalize weed anyway.

Ff99l1 · 09-30-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrattonBasher

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/W...90926-298.html

I stumbled upon this article this morning. I disagree with some of it, but this author truly knows the subject matter. Bless You Jack Herer!!! He gave a stirring speech about how money has infected our movement, then had the heart attack. I have opined many times how I distrust the new push to legalize MJ for tax and money reasons, and I am heartened and proud that the Great Jack Herer agrees with me. I am sickened to see MPP on Fox News pushing the money bullshit to the sheep that watch Fox News (baaa baaa, I watch Fox News)! I strongly disagree with the authors negative view on MMJ, and I just don't see this bias against growing your own in California like they refer to in Arizona. Please read the article and post your thoughts.

thanks for the info . I also watch fox. peace Gary

ShiningSkull · 10-01-2009, 12:23 AM

So I've found three initiatives for mj legalization, plus Jack's initiative/MERP model.

California Cannabis Initiative: The Legalize, Regulate and Tax Marijuana Initiative

Tax Cannabis 2010

Home = grasstax.org

Jack Herer - Initiative

I wonder if I should start one thread in which to compare them all or should each initiative have its own thread?

We need to figure this out. I know one of them has already hired a signature gathering firm with a perfect record. I wish it was illegal to pay people to gather signatures for initiative petitions.

Watch VooDoo Chile come in and quote me the case law on why I'll never get my wish.

**steveadams203** · 10-01-2009, 01:42 AM

just get this shit legal and we can work out the symantics later. i dont understand JH's frustration. maybe because hes one of the most famous people in the industry with the least to show for it...??? all i gots to say is we have it prety good at the moment but we could have it alot better. CA is expensive state to live in and if yo udont like the taxes, get the fuck to a diff state because yal are too damn picky. i gurantee if you or any of them cats in jail would certainly tell ya that they would rather pay taxes on weed then sit in jail for using and consuming it......and i sure as hell would too. if you want to argue that taxes are uncostitutional, that is a valid argument id support, but lets get weed legalized before we complain about how much the taxes cost. and is anyone really stupid enough to think they will need to pay taxes on a few plants they grow at home for self consumption????? like the other dood said>> you can go brew beer right now,,, but why bother when you can goto the store and pick up a 12 pack....oh wait,,, dont they tax beer??? better question you should be asking yourself is what IS NOT taxed????? why do they think that marijuana is too holy to not be taxed??? fuck ill pay the few pennies in tax. i already do for everything else i own. but at least they aint throwing me in prison for owning my big screen tv......

ShiningSkull · 10-01-2009, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveadams203

just get this shit legal and we can work out the symantics later.

Semantics should be worked out first. What about these issues?

Can we take this for fact?

ShiningSkull · 10-01-2009, 02:42 AM

Here's another comparison between the California Cannabis Initiative and Oaksterdam's Tax and Regulate initiative that zeroes in on the details that would most impact us:

Key differences between Oaksterdam's TaxCannabis2010.org (TC2010) and California Cannabis Initiatives (CCI)

Possession limit for personal use? CCI = No TC2010 = 1 oz

Limit for personal use grow space? CCI = No TC2010 = 25 sq ft

Implementation Contingent on Local Politics? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes

People go to prison for Marijuana? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes

Unlimited Taxation? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes

Creates confusing laws? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes

Allows Legislature to re-write law? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes

Benefits the few and Well-Connected? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes

Encourages Mega-Corporations? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes

If this is all true, it looks like CCI is the better initiative. Too bad it's "Tax and Regulate" that is so well funded.

The Plant Manager · 10-01-2009, 04:02 AM

You forgot something they both have in common: Neither one is going to pass.
It's the voting public that decides and they are so anti devil weed.

Semantics.

Jack Herer has run a similar initiative for decades. Don't forget wishful thinking gets one nowhere. Signatures from petitioners cost 25 cents a pop. Do you have an extra 30 million dollars laying around to pay for sigs and the eventual advertising?

It's a moot point.

I'm not playing devils advocate. I just live in the real world.

09-29-2009, 09:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
BrattonBasher Weed Wizard Of Westwood Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Monica Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 7,099 Rep Power: 127208	BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/W...90926-298.html I stumbled upon this article this morning. I disagree with some of it, but this author truly knows the subject matter. Bless You Jack Herer!!! He gave a stirring speech about how money has infected our movement, then had the heart attack. I have opined many times how I distrust the new push to legalize MJ for tax and money reasons, and I am heartened and proud that the Great Jack Herer agrees with me. I am sickened to see MPP on Fox News pushing the money bullshit to the sheep that watch Fox News (baaa baaa, I watch Fox News)! I strongly disagree with the authors negative view on MMJ, and I just don't see this bias against growing your own in California like they refer to in Arizona. Please read the article and post your thoughts.

09-29-2009, 12:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Smilodon Part of the Solution Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Diego Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 1,043 Rep Power: 62282	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! That is a long, but interesting read. There were several inconsistencies I saw so I chased one down: Article "... and the CRRH is responsible for making sure we adult Americans never get the right to grow our own Marijuana so that Stanford and his Cannabusiness buddies can continue to profit at our expense." Campaign for the Restoration and Regulation of Hemp Website "CRRH's Cannabis Tax Acts (CTA) would comprehensively reform marijuana laws by regulating and taxing adult sales; licensing the cultivation of the drug for sale in adult-only businesses; allowing adults to grow their own and farmers to grow industrial hemp without license; and letting doctors prescribe untaxed cannabis to patients suffering from a variety of illnesses and injuries." (my bold) I had a hard time believing him after that. It is clear that the rec mills and some of those "Cannabusiness" guys have a vested interest and that one regulation in Arizona was very disturbing. I just can't see anything getting passed that would prohibit growing your own. LOL, that would be a whole other campaign for me. That Jack would support his own initiative is not unusual, in fact it sounds like the best one. I would prefer not to have my meds taxed. I really can't see how you can avoid taxing recreational use though. I may have made the mistake of endorsing initiatives that have a negative effect. I guess I need to read them more closely and review my thoughts. So what happens if all three of the legalization propositions are passed? Do they take the one with the most votes or is there some process? Smilodon says.. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem."

09-29-2009, 12:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
BrattonBasher Weed Wizard Of Westwood Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Monica Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 7,099 Rep Power: 127208	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! The only legalization initiative I support is Jacks, but I thought his was DOA.

09-29-2009, 02:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
baby magic Do or do not there is no try. Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: pico rivera Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 35 Rep Power: 62	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! Take what u can get for now. Then fix after. politics suck arguing over a seed/plant ! what a world we live in be happy

09-29-2009, 06:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
VooDoo Chile Stoned Immaculate Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Canoga Park, Fool Co-Op: NO Vendor: NO Patient: YES Posts: 1,879 Rep Power: 113121	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! Interesting read, for sure. A lot to chew on, though. Personally I can totally see how and why some folks would want to monopolize this clearly profitable industry. But I also don't think that it's as simple as this dude's making it out to be. Simply stated, I think that if given the choice between growing their own and purchasing marijuana, the vast majority of people would rather buy it themselves. The beer analogy he uses in the article serves as a great example of this phenomenon. Anybody can brew their own beer. How many people actually do it? A small fraction of America's beer drinkers. I firmly believe the same is true for marijuana. People pay for the convenience. I know that's one of the reasons why I don't grow my own meds. Beyond that, I don't see why this has to be such a black and white issue. Someday I'd like to grow my own meds, but even if I did, I don't think I'd ever subsist solely on the fruits of my own labor. Can't we grow our own meds and purchase them at the same time? VooDoo Chile says.."A Young Lady Raised in a Kooky Era"- ScrewyLewy

09-29-2009, 07:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
cephas ya say it, Sea-f-ahs. Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: in a state of flux. Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 1,344 Rep Power: 145667	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! From the politicians I have talked to it is the growing aspect they fear most. They fear what they can't control and that can't really be controlled. Same thing with taxes, they are the ones who want them even if they aren't coming out and saying it directly; but it is the politicians who are most interested in having that conversation... In reality (as VDC said), most people will not grow regardless if allowed or not, the politicians don't seem to understand that though, they think every body will grow it and hand it out to kids on play grounds for free....I'm exaggerating but not as much as you may think. As to the moneygrubbers wanting to keep us from growing ourselves, that is obviously happening too,...that article makes that much very apparent...plenty to think about for sure... And yeah, Jack's initiative would be the best to back it looks like right now....and I have had the same thought as to all initiatives passing at once, that might cause some problems.... cephas says.."Gangsta's and Hoe's are just his generation's Cowboys and Indians...." ~Peggy Hill. Homer Cheese's say peace out. Word. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-29-2009, 11:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
joe32blow WT Regular Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hollywood, CA Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 429 Rep Power: 8399	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! I don't think it should be taxed any differently than any other medication, except that taxation does in some way help legitimize it. With government coffers gutted at the moment, taxation is the carrot that may make them losen up controls. LA seemed to stop shutting down coops for awhile. They say it's because they are drafting new regulation, but the real reason mostly likely has something to do with tax revenue. Ronald Regean said that politicians were like those that practiced the oldest profession (prostitutes). They will sell their souls for money. I'd rather have it taxed and accessible, then not accessible at all.

09-30-2009, 06:53 AM	#8 (permalink)
Sir smokes-A-Lot DARE to keep cops off doughnuts Join Date: Dec 2006 Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 678 Rep Power: 22534	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! Yeah I can grow my own but its probably not going to turn out like some dank I get from dispenseries so thats why I choose to buy it. The stuff we buy from dispenseries is grown buy people who know what they are doing it seems. There never going to legalize weed anyway.

10-01-2009, 12:23 AM	#10 (permalink)
ShiningSkull real real gone Join Date: Mar 2008 Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 1,238 Rep Power: 129898	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! So I've found three initiatives for mj legalization, plus Jack's initiative/MERP model. California Cannabis Initiative: The Legalize, Regulate and Tax Marijuana Initiative Tax Cannabis 2010 Home = grasstax.org Jack Herer - Initiative I wonder if I should start one thread in which to compare them all or should each initiative have its own thread? We need to figure this out. I know one of them has already hired a signature gathering firm with a perfect record. I wish it was illegal to pay people to gather signatures for initiative petitions. Watch VooDoo Chile come in and quote me the case law on why I'll never get my wish.

10-01-2009, 01:42 AM	#11 (permalink)
steveadams203 Quick Fused Sighter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: colliefornia Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 205 Rep Power: 888	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! just get this shit legal and we can work out the symantics later. i dont understand JH's frustration. maybe because hes one of the most famous people in the industry with the least to show for it...??? all i gots to say is we have it prety good at the moment but we could have it alot better. CA is expensive state to live in and if yo udont like the taxes, get the fuck to a diff state because yal are too damn picky. i gurantee if you or any of them cats in jail would certainly tell ya that they would rather pay taxes on weed then sit in jail for using and consuming it......and i sure as hell would too. if you want to argue that taxes are uncostitutional, that is a valid argument id support, but lets get weed legalized before we complain about how much the taxes cost. and is anyone really stupid enough to think they will need to pay taxes on a few plants they grow at home for self consumption????? like the other dood said>> you can go brew beer right now,,, but why bother when you can goto the store and pick up a 12 pack....oh wait,,, dont they tax beer??? better question you should be asking yourself is what IS NOT taxed????? why do they think that marijuana is too holy to not be taxed??? fuck ill pay the few pennies in tax. i already do for everything else i own. but at least they aint throwing me in prison for owning my big screen tv...... steveadams203 says.."Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolutions inevitable." Last edited by steveadams203; 10-01-2009 at 01:47 AM..

10-01-2009, 02:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
ShiningSkull real real gone Join Date: Mar 2008 Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: yes Posts: 1,238 Rep Power: 129898	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! Here's another comparison between the California Cannabis Initiative and Oaksterdam's Tax and Regulate initiative that zeroes in on the details that would most impact us: Key differences between Oaksterdam's TaxCannabis2010.org (TC2010) and California Cannabis Initiatives (CCI) Possession limit for personal use? CCI = No TC2010 = 1 oz Limit for personal use grow space? CCI = No TC2010 = 25 sq ft Implementation Contingent on Local Politics? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes People go to prison for Marijuana? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes Unlimited Taxation? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes Creates confusing laws? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes Allows Legislature to re-write law? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes Benefits the few and Well-Connected? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes Encourages Mega-Corporations? CCI = No TC2010 = Yes If this is all true, it looks like CCI is the better initiative. Too bad it's "Tax and Regulate" that is so well funded.

10-01-2009, 04:02 AM	#14 (permalink)
The Plant Manager Preservationists Rule! Join Date: Jul 2009 Co-Op: no Vendor: no Patient: YES Posts: 140 Rep Power: 7325	Re: BLOCKBUSTER Article on Marijuana! MUST READ! You forgot something they both have in common: Neither one is going to pass. It's the voting public that decides and they are so anti devil weed. Semantics. Jack Herer has run a similar initiative for decades. Don't forget wishful thinking gets one nowhere. Signatures from petitioners cost 25 cents a pop. Do you have an extra 30 million dollars laying around to pay for sigs and the eventual advertising? It's a moot point. I'm not playing devils advocate. I just live in the real world.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

WeedTRACKER

Welcome to WeedTRACKER!