[jeeper686]

HOW are dispenseries supposed to pay taxes if they are non profit? What do they pay for it out of there pockets or what? Dosent make sense????

[medasunman]

i'am sure they would be looking for the sales tax.

[fire-fly]

thank you, I can't make sense of any of these theories. Illogical, each and every one. Seems like pure reactionaries with no analysis. Also, they are using selective statistics - turning it into propaganda. What about us, the patients? we are the little crying victims. shame.

[Col. Kif]

How can you charge sales tax on a DONATION to a not for profit???

If you charge tax its a SALE.

So now I am curious under what business model a Dispensary can charge sales tax, yet call the transaction a donation?

[Masonic Chronic]

that right there is another lawsuit against the city/state just waiting to be filed but no one wants to step up and be noticed. The Non-Profits and/or Not for profits are tax exempt. They either have to tax us and let us be completely legal... or they need to let us be ourselves and stop with this bs.


NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION TO STOP THESE RAIDS

[cypress bill]

maybe a better question is how do all the clubs/collectives qualify as non-profit.
lets say a clubs picks up 5lb of herb at 2500 per lb = $12500. lets say rent is $2k
so we're up to 14500. lets assume they sell all the herb at 45 an 1/8. 640(1/8) x 45($) = $28800. if you have 14.5k in expenses and you've made 28.8k from "donations" i'm seeing about 14k profit in a month just from my simple scenario i can't even imagine what they really make.

lets not pull punches here! the clubs are making a PROFIT! if paying taxes keeps the heat off then the smart clubs would be paying taxes.

i'm all for clubs but they are greedy bastards! they offer growers rediculously low prices and charge up the ass when they RESELL it.

lol call it a "donation" but it has a set price.... wtf that isn't a donation
1. a voluntary gift (as of money or service or ideas) made to some worthwhile cause
2. act of giving in common with others for a common purpose especially to a charity
3. A donation is a gift given by physical or legal persons, typically for charitable purposes and/or to benefit a cause.

non-profit means spread the wealth. pay your growers well, pay your employees well (lol volunteers) take the tip jar off the counter! and don't keep all the profits for yourself.

just my 2cents

[The_Clone_Depot]

most clubs are paying more for good bud, 3500 - 4200

most clubs are paying more for there location than 2k in la county. Some landlords are saying yes to clubs and adding on almost double rent as a tax.

Then there is employees, and many other expenses you are not figuring in.

Originally Posted by cypress bill

maybe a better question is how do all the clubs/collectives qualify as non-profit.
lets say a clubs picks up 5lb of herb at 2500 per lb = $12500. lets say rent is $2k
so we're up to 14500. lets assume they sell all the herb at 45 an 1/8. 640(1/8) x 45($) = $28800. if you have 14.5k in expenses and you've made 28.8k from "donations" i'm seeing about 14k profit in a month just from my simple scenario i can't even imagine what they really make.

lets not pull punches here! the clubs are making a PROFIT! if paying taxes keeps the heat off then the smart clubs would be paying taxes.

i'm all for clubs but they are greedy bastards! they offer growers rediculously low prices and charge up the ass when they RESELL it.

lol call it a "donation" but it has a set price.... wtf that isn't a donation
1. a voluntary gift (as of money or service or ideas) made to some worthwhile cause
2. act of giving in common with others for a common purpose especially to a charity
3. A donation is a gift given by physical or legal persons, typically for charitable purposes and/or to benefit a cause.

non-profit means spread the wealth. pay your growers well, pay your employees well (lol volunteers) take the tip jar off the counter! and don't keep all the profits for yourself.

just my 2cents

[kennabis]

the conspiracy is stalling... until they release the first batch of "marlskunkys", by the case of course, at a 7-11 near you.....

hhmmmm, do you have the nonfiltered nyc diesel ultraslim strawberry wrap?!? no?!? ok, um....how's bout la's og cubana toro?!? ya got any of those around?!? ya got so much candy on the counter, i cant see whatcha got

(i love these pie smilies!)

[cypress bill]

Originally Posted by The_Clone_Depot

most clubs are paying more for good bud, 3500 - 4200

most clubs are paying more for there location than 2k in la county. Some landlords are saying yes to clubs and adding on almost double rent as a tax.

Then there is employees, and many other expenses you are not figuring in.

employees? they call them volunteers though. and yes my example does leave out other monthly expenses but my point was clubs are making a profit. if they weren't they'd not be in that business. granted some make more profit then others but i have yet to see a club that isn't making a profit.

the rpice of outdoor herb and spiraled out of control. growers are lucky to get 2500 an LB. indoor it's abit better BUT they still try to nickle and dime you down. regardless of non-profit or profit they are out to make money and they do make money. i have no problem with people making money BUT if you're going to be a non-profit you need to spread the money around. pay your employees and vendors WELL! the more money you show going out the door is less that can be called profit.

this is why i think a true collective is better then a dispensary. the idea is all members of the collective contribute and share in the "profit".


peace,

[CarlSagan]

Originally Posted by cypress bill

maybe a better question is how do all the clubs/collectives qualify as non-profit.
lets say a clubs picks up 5lb of herb at 2500 per lb = $12500. lets say rent is $2k
so we're up to 14500. lets assume they sell all the herb at 45 an 1/8. 640(1/8) x 45($) = $28800. if you have 14.5k in expenses and you've made 28.8k from "donations" i'm seeing about 14k profit in a month just from my simple scenario i can't even imagine what they really make.

lets not pull punches here! the clubs are making a PROFIT! if paying taxes keeps the heat off then the smart clubs would be paying taxes.

i'm all for clubs but they are greedy bastards! they offer growers rediculously low prices and charge up the ass when they RESELL it.

lol call it a "donation" but it has a set price.... wtf that isn't a donation
1. a voluntary gift (as of money or service or ideas) made to some worthwhile cause
2. act of giving in common with others for a common purpose especially to a charity
3. A donation is a gift given by physical or legal persons, typically for charitable purposes and/or to benefit a cause.

non-profit means spread the wealth. pay your growers well, pay your employees well (lol volunteers) take the tip jar off the counter! and don't keep all the profits for yourself.

just my 2cents

There is a difference between profit and revenue. There are a lot of nonprofits that have a lot of revenue and pay their employees a lot. A private university, for example, is a non-profit. A school like Harvard is worth billions, charges students over $40,000 a year, and pays many faculty members over $250,000 a year...and they are non-profit.

Non-profit isn't about how much money is coming in. Non-profit is about how revenue is spent. They have no profit because their revenue is spent investing in the university (or whatever the nonprofit is) and investing in the university includes paying faculty and staff, and sometimes paying them (the faculty) a lot!!!

A donation to a non-profit, like a univeristy (or NPR or PBS, etc etc....) is almost always in CASH and never TAXed (but the non-taxed status can only be applied of the non-profit is certified as non-profit and files the proper forms with the IRS, the state, etc). you can donate cash to PBS and they will give you a "gift" if DVDs, or if you give a Univeristy enough money, they will give you a building (that is, name it after you)

We pay sales tax on MMJ because the state is exploiting its own loophole.

How many co-ops are registered as non-profit with the IRS, etc? I don't know, but it seems that only these co-ops could make the argument that they shouldnt have to pay sales tax.

I dont know how many co-ops are nonprofit and how many are opporating for profit, the only way to really know is to look at each co-op individually and look at how they appriate revenue...if any are register nonprofits, this info should be publicly available. The only way for the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a co-op is for profit is by having forensic accountants perform an audit. We will see if the LA and SD DAs can convinse a judge/jury that each co-op they bust is "for profit".

when recreational mmj is legalized next year, our next fight should be to get mmj paid for by health insurance (and hopefully we'll have a public option! )

[Col. Kif]

Guys I'm really thinking you do not know the differences between a NON-Profit and a Not For Profit. Two very different beasts as far as legal business entities go. By definition both a Co-Op and a collective are Not For Profit. Its all in *HOW* money after expenses & Salaries gets handled. There is also the fact that A Co-Op model requires a business liscense while a true "Collective" does not.

I still have yet to hear from Someone in the know about HOW Dispensaries can charge sales tax on a "Donation"?

Can a dispensary owner or MMJ Lawyer pony up that info please?

[H2C]

This thread has really got me thinking, I am going to ask some questions and get some more info for you guys.

[Mindfury]

Here's a thought. CB's first calculation had a profit. Perhaps the co-ops could give back soem to the patients, just liek they would disperse the meds. that way the money would stay in the collective circle. and would benefit both sides.

[PB Collective]

I think that it is insensitive to add sales tax to medicine and make it even more costly for patients. Our tax bill for a 6 mo. period is thousands!!!! very unfair treatment!!!! We contribute significantly with our taxes and still they persecute us!

[cypress bill]

Originally Posted by Mindfury

Here's a thought. CB's first calculation had a profit. Perhaps the co-ops could give back soem to the patients, just liek they would disperse the meds. that way the money would stay in the collective circle. and would benefit both sides.

if the clubs paid the employees higher wages. oddly though it "seems" like the cats who work in clubs are "volunteers" make them paid employees that earn a good wage!

do you know if you have employees on the payroll part of the money you(clubs) pay in taxes is actually going to the federal government?

i thought it would be great if the clubs pumped some of the "profits" back in to the community. weather it be to the schools for a Music program (music is one of the 1st things cut out when funding is tight) or into graffiti removal.

peace,

[cypress bill]

Originally Posted by PB Collective

I think that it is insensitive to add sales tax to medicine and make it even more costly for patients. Our tax bill for a 6 mo. period is thousands!!!! very unfair treatment!!!! We contribute significantly with our taxes and still they persecute us!

i tell my kids if you want to succeed you have to learn to play the game and the rules change daily and never in your favor. if the city wants you to pay sales tax in order to stay open then the rules of the game are quite simple! pay taxes on what is sold and don't charge the patients. once again the less profit you show the better it is.
i don't own a club so giving away profits are easy....

[BrattonBasher]

Originally Posted by cypress bill

if the clubs paid the employees higher wages. oddly though it "seems" like the cats who work in clubs are "volunteers" make them paid employees that earn a good wage!

do you know if you have employees on the payroll part of the money you(clubs) pay in taxes is actually going to the federal government?

i thought it would be great if the clubs pumped some of the "profits" back in to the community. weather it be to the schools for a Music program (music is one of the 1st things cut out when funding is tight) or into graffiti removal.

peace,

All the co-ops I frequent have lowered prices over the years. Thats what I want them to do with extra funds.

[CarlSagan]

Originally Posted by Col. Kif

Guys I'm really thinking you do not know the differences between a NON-Profit and a Not For Profit. Two very different beasts as far as legal business entities go. By definition both a Co-Op and a collective are Not For Profit. Its all in *HOW* money after expenses & Salaries gets handled. There is also the fact that A Co-Op model requires a business liscense while a true "Collective" does not.

I still have yet to hear from Someone in the know about HOW Dispensaries can charge sales tax on a "Donation"?

Can a dispensary owner or MMJ Lawyer pony up that info please?

Non-profit and not-for-profit are usually used interchangably. The difference is (in my limited understanding...I'm not a lawyer) is that a non-profit has a charter.

I don't see why you couldnt have a co-op that is a non-profit, but I don't know of any (and I guess I wouldn't know unless without doing some homework).

But when it comes to sales tax the non-profit and not-for-profit distinction doesn't matter. Neither group is eligable to be taxed or have their services subject to a sales tax.

Both non-profits and not-for-profits can earn a lot of revenue and both can pay their employees very well (although do not because they cannot afford to).

Whether or not it is legal (legitimate) for us to pay sales tax on mmj from co-ops depends on whether or not those co-ops have all of their paperwork in order to demonstrate that they are not operating for a profit, but instead, are reinvesting revenue in the co-op.

Remember, many states have a SALES TAX ON ILLEGAL DRUGS!!!

I don't know if there are any laws like this in California, but in other states you are required to buy a TAX STAMP to display on your baggy of drugs. I doubt that anyone ever buys these Drug Tax Stamps (I mean, can you imagine going to some beaurcratic office to declare your intent to buy drugs and buy these stamps!?!). What these Tax Stamps do, however, is give the state an extra charge against you. If you are arrest for possession of drugs you will have a much heavier sentence if your baggy didn't have the right stamp. So you get busted for drugs, and if you dont have the stamp, you also get fined for tax evasion (or something like that).

In other words, many states already tax the sale of illegal drugs. Perhaps if you bought your mmj from a (for-profit!) street dealer, you're supposed to pay sales tax on that too!

Thus...perhaps...if a co-op does not have the proper documentation that it is opperating not-for-profit, then its sales are subject to a sales tax.

But if the co-op has all of the proper federal and state documents to verify their not-for-profit status, then I do not see how there could be a legitimate basis for paying sales tax.

Of course...paying sales tax is not necessarily a bad thing. I don't think medicine should be taxed, but this is one way for co-ops to coopt state and local officials. Like in Oakland, the more taxes on mmj we pay, the more depended state and local governments are from tax revenue derived from mmj...and the more pain these govt's will experience if they try to shut down co-ops.

I don't advocate taxing mmj, but it may be one avenue for gaining further acceptance and protection from local gov'ts.

[silvercloud]

Hey now CarlSagan ,always interested in broadening the horizon ~ could you please enlighten us as to which states offer a *taxstamp on illicit dope ?!? ~ thanks in advance

In 1933 the federal gov't issued a TaxStamp for possession of marijuana ~ only thing is ,'not one' of the stamps were ever issued ~ me wonders if this is a similar type gov't scam ? ~ that is all

[silvercloud]

Originally Posted by Col. Kif

How can you charge sales tax on a DONATION to a not for profit???

If you charge tax its a SALE.

So now I am curious under what business model a Dispensary can charge sales tax, yet call the transaction a donation?

If one were to let the current issues permeate our past history ,it's very easy to feel/see the frustrations of the early Colonists when the question of "Taxation w/o Representation" was on everyones' lips ~

Are we experiencing deja vu` ?!? ~ that is all

[rubberguard]

Not for profit corporations are allowed to add the sales tax into the donation price , so when you buy an 1/8th for how ever much it is you pay the tax is all ready worked into the cost of the donation price and then given to irs etc.

"whether or not you make a profit, like other retailers making taxable
sales, you can ask your customers to reimburse you for the sales taxes due on your sales, if you fulfill the requirements explained in Regulation 1700, Reimbursement
for Sales Tax"

[gmoney666]

cypress bill - your figures are way off. I think there are plenty of places that are not making 'profits'. Whoever thinks that all the workers are volunteers are mistaken. 90%+ get paid. 2 employees a month can be $6000+ and then the owner needs to make money to live. A security guard can add 7000 a month in expenses. Many clubs pay 4000-8000 for the rent.

What about theft loss? It happens for sure.
Insurance?
etc
lots of expenses.
Yes some places make much more than they spend, but I don't think they all do or even most.

The whole sales tax is a scam. If they are trying to close the places then they have no business expecting tax to be paid. I think the city should be able to make some money, but they need to have proper protections for those that pay. Like the mafia! Remember they are gangsters. A can of raid?????? Bunch of clowns with power

[kgbud1]

Originally Posted by The_Clone_Depot

most clubs are paying more for good bud, 3500 - 4200

Here's some real math that most clubs mark up

3500-4200+ = $60-65+ 1/8

2800-3500 = $45-55 1/8

2800-below $40-25 1/8

I have seen it first hand. When they deal with vendors they bust out that old calculator to see where they can price it at.

I'm not saying every club but the vast majority of them are.

Kgbud1

[OPIES]

Originally Posted by jeeper686

HOW are dispenseries supposed to pay taxes if they are non profit? What do they pay for it out of there pockets or what? Dosent make sense????

Non profit does not mean the business cannot bring in money and it also does not mean you can not be compensated for your time you work at the shop, it simply means you cannot be greedy and fill all your pockets with the money,there is alot more to it but it is pretty easy to understand,maybe I can type more about what it means when I get more time,bottom line is remember only take reasonable compensation don't be greedy.......peace and good luck all from OPIES

[SoCalSkunk]

Originally Posted by OPIES

Non profit does not mean the business cannot bring in money and it also does not mean you can not be compensated for your time you work at the shop, it simply means you cannot be greedy and fill all your pockets with the money,there is alot more to it but it is pretty easy to understand,maybe I can type more about what it means when I get more time,bottom line is remember only take reasonable compensation don't be greedy.......peace and good luck all from OPIES

From my simple understanding, In a normal for profit business after all expenses are paid then a single owner or group of owners take the rest of the money for themselves (profit).
In a non-profit business once the overhead is paid and the workers are only reasonably compensated the rest of the money is put into a business account only to be used for business purposes of furthering the work of the non-profit group other than worker compensation and should not be kept by any one person or persons for profit. A little bit correct?

The Red Cross is a non-profit group and to me it seems some of the workers live a comfortable life and have nice material possessions.

I found this link about non-profit groups:
Basic Overview of Nonprofit Organizations