[ShiningSkull]

Golden State's green future

Richard Lee, left, president of Oaksterdam University in Oakland, and Jeff Jones,
director of the Patient ID Center, have crafted a marijuana legalization measure they're pushing to get on the November 2010 ballot in California.

By Josh Richman
Oakland Tribune
Posted: 10/31/2009 01:39:55 PM PDT
Updated: 11/01/2009 08:17:07 AM PST


Just in from Stockton, Mary parks her car and enters the downtown Oakland coffeehouse — but she hasn't come all this way for a cup of joe.

Instead, she peruses a menu of dozens of strains and preparations of marijuana, all grown in California, all taxed, all legal. Producing a wad of cash and proof of her age — but no doctor's note — for a fragrant ounce of "purple kush," she departs a satisfied customer, perhaps grabbing a snack at a nearby restaurant before hitting the highway.

This could be California's near future, what with three marijuana-legalization initiatives in circulation for the November 2010 ballot. A legislative bill is pending as well, although it's being revamped by its author.

Groups such as the National Association for the Reform of Marijuana Laws and the Marijuana Policy Project favored waiting at least until 2012, when a presidential vote might mobilize a younger, more progressive electorate. But these measures' proponents believe shifting attitudes and the economic crisis make 2010 the time to act.

They say legalization makes fiscal sense as well as moral sense — ending the centurylong practice of criminalizing a widely used substance that's less harmful than alcohol, America's legal drug of choice. They tout an immediate, massive savings in state and local law enforcement and corrections costs, and perhaps significant new revenue; a state Board of Equalization study found
could reap $1.3 billion a year from licensing and taxing what's already its biggest — albeit off-the-books — cash crop, if the federal ban on marijuana is lifted.

But many in law enforcement contend whatever money is saved and made wouldn't be worth the harm done to communities.

Measure of movement

Of the three ballot measures seeking petition signatures, the one with the most money and buzz behind it would legalize personal cultivation and use but would let local governments choose whether to allow commercial cultivation and retail sales of up to an ounce at a time, creating a patchwork of "wet" and "dry" cities and counties.

"It's up to the local jurisdictions for what works best, just as we have alcohol laws," said co-proponent and Oaksterdam University President Richard Lee, who could see his business — providing "quality training for the cannabis industry" — grow exponentially if his measure passes.

Co-proponent Jeff Jones directed the now-defunct Oakland Cannabis Buyers Cooperative and now runs its successor, the Patient ID Center, in Oakland and Los Angeles. They've hired a professional petition drive management firm, and went in expecting to spend about $1 per signature.

"We got 206,000 in the first three weeks, so that's about 32 percent in 14 percent of the time," Lee said. "We think we'll be done maybe a little after Thanksgiving at the rate we're going. People have been ripping the petition blanks out of our hands, they're so eager to sign them."

But would marijuana be sold in coffeehouses, in dedicated stores, in liquor stores or in a neighborhood drugstore? Where and when could one smoke? What kind of advertising would be permitted? Could California employees of national companies be fired for testing positive for cannabis? All these questions and many more would be left up to state and local lawmakers.

Lee hopes places that choose to allow, regulate and tax commercial sales — most likely the more liberal, coastal areas at first — would adopt a "coffeehouse" model like Amsterdam's, which proliferated for a while in Oakland under California's medical marijuana law. Such businesses balance sensitivity to the community with knowledgeable customer service, better than impersonal mass-market retail sales, he said.

Nation vs. states

The wild card is federal law, which still bans all cannabis cultivation, use and sale. The Obama administration advised federal prosecutors last month not to pursue medical marijuana patients and providers adhering to their states' laws. But while health is often constitutionally considered to be within states' purview, interstate commerce and control of dangerous drugs has been federal territory, and there's no telling whether the first county to authorize a big, commercial farm growing marijuana for recreational use would see it immediately busted by the Drug Enforcement Administration.

All the measures' proponents hope legalization in California — a state comprising about 12 percent of the nation's population, and a higher percentage of its agriculture and commerce — would lead other states and eventually the federal government to do the same. Until then, California once again would be a trailblazer, with all the potential headaches accompanying that distinction.

Those headaches would include increased drug abuse and its accompanying crime, according to law enforcement officials who testified at an Assembly Public Safety Committee hearing Wednesday in Sacramento.

Committee chairman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, in February introduced a bill that would legalize marijuana cultivation, sales, possession and use by adults, regulating it somewhat like alcohol; Wednesday's hearing was to gather input as he rewrites the bill to address concerns raised this year.

Officials from various law enforcement agencies and associations testified that legalization under any scheme could lead to more, not less, use by children; more people driving under the influence, causing more injuries and deaths; decreased worker productivity that could hurt the economy; and the continuance of a thriving black market. California Peace Officers' Association President John Standish said there's "no way marijuana legalization could protect or promote society — in fact, it radically diminishes it."

After the hearing, Sally Fairchild — deputy director of the Northern California High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, who had testified on behalf of the California Narcotic Officers Association — said a wet-and-dry county scenario like that envisioned by Lee and Jones' measure would be "unenforceable" as a practical matter. Any county choosing to regulate commercial cultivation and sale will become "the dope dealer for that region," fueling rampant black market operations.

Cops aren't only critics

Some say Lee and Jones' measure doesn't go far enough. Dennis Peron, a proponent of 1996's successful medical marijuana ballot measure, Proposition 215, recently likened limits set by Lee and Jones' measure to a hypothetical law allowing only one bottle of wine in a home: "These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore."

There's no exception from the prohibition on "smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present" for parents in their homes, he noted in a recent statement. "We don't lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner, and we certainly don't tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance, so why start with cannabis?"

And taxation would maintain cannabis "as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs," Peron wrote. "Surely we can do better than this. How about just legalizing it?"

Alternative views

Another proposed ballot measure seems closer to that scenario. One of its proponents, San Francisco attorney James Clark, was helping Lee and Jones draft their measure when he hit upon what he believes is a better plan.

Lee and Jones' limits on personal cultivation and use encourages "very much a commercial model, very much keeping prohibition alive," Clark said, while his proposal seeks to "make this like soybeans" so anyone can grow and use as much as they want for themselves, which he believes will actually reduce demand in the long run. Commercial cultivation and sales would be licensed and taxed; Clark envisions big farms furnishing cannabis products to retail outlets — perhaps liquor stores, perhaps drugstores.

Clark said his measure "was never meant to be a really viable petition," lacking funding and full-time staff members, but "we're really starting to get traction. "... If our growth continues to be exponential, it's possible we'll make the ballot." He acknowledges, however, that Lee and Jones' measure is more likely to qualify.

John Donohue, 84, of Long Beach — a marijuana user since 1946, embittered by his five arrests for the drug — offers another measure, co-authored with longtime marijuana and Peace and Freedom Party activist Casey Peters, of Los Angeles. Donohue said they tried to keep it simple — specifics of taxation and regulation would "just have to be worked out in the process" — and hoped people would get behind it, but their petition drive has stalled as Lee and Jones' measure gets most of the exposure.

"(We are) giving various interviews and telling people what our position is and hoping we can start a movement," he said. "The main point is: Stop arresting people for a non-crime. I have bumper stickers that say, 'Show me the crime.'"‰"

The next Budweiser?

Ultimately, any legalized marijuana scenario will have pluses and minuses, says Mark Kleiman, professor of public policy and director of the Drug Policy Analysis Program at the UCLA.

"How much different does it look than today? You don't have to get a phony doctor's recommendation," he said. "How much bigger would the market be than it is today? There's no way to tell."

But Kleiman predicts it would be bigger, especially if commercial advertising — print, online, radio and television ads, billboards, catchy jingles — becomes commonplace.

"Do we get brand names? You can imagine this becoming like the liquor industry," he said. "I don't think it's the end of the world. But if we go the whole commercial route, I think you will have more drug abuse."

If a million more Californians take up marijuana use, "we'll have another 100,000 pretty screwed up on it. Being screwed up on marijuana might not be as bad as being screwed up on alcohol, but it's still bad enough," Kleiman said. "Unlike some people, I don't think the stuff's harmless."

Yet, with careful regulation and steps to avoid commercialization, California could do far worse, he said. "Do I believe the state could get half a billion out of this (in taxes)? Yeah I do. Do I think it could also save a couple of hundred million (on law enforcement)? Yes, probably."


• The plans to legalize pot Assembly Bill 390: Introduced in February by Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, it would legalize marijuana cultivation, sales, possession and use by people 21 and older, regulating it somewhat like alcohol. A license to grow for sale would cost $5,000 to start and then $2,500 to renew each year, and a $50-per-ounce tax would be placed on retail sales. Ammiano said he hopes this would bring upward of $1.4 billion per year for drug abuse prevention efforts. No taxation would occur unless the federal marijuana ban is lifted; otherwise, the bill's only effect would be legalization of personal cultivation and use. Ammiano held the bill in committee this year, and is now rewriting it to put it forth again in January.

• The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010: Proposed by Oakland marijuana activists Richard Lee and Jeff Jones, it would legalize personal possession of up to an ounce of cannabis and up to 25 square feet of cultivation per home. It also would give local governments the option of whether to permit, regulate and tax commercial sales, a system akin to show alcohol is or isn't sold in "wet" and "dry" counties in some states. This seems to be the measure to watch; the proponents say their petition drive is surging, and its endorsements include that of Oakland mayoral candidate and former state Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata. For details, go to Tax Cannabis 2010.

• The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act of 2010: Advanced by proponents Joe Rogoway, Omar Figueroa and James Clark, all of San Francisco, it would legalize personal cultivation and use without limits, but would require -- not just allow -- state and local governments to regulate and tax commercial marijuana cultivation and sales. Tax revenues would have to be spent on education, health care, environmental programs, public works and state parks. For details, go to California Cannabis Initiative: The Legalize, Regulate and Tax Marijuana Initiative.

• The Common Sense Act of 2010: Advanced by proponent John Donohue, of Long Beach, it would require the Legislature to adopt laws regulating and taxing marijuana within one year, but would let local governments choose whether to also tax marijuana's cultivation, sale, and use. For details, go to Home.

[OG Dave]

Tax Cannabis Act of 2010 by the Oaksterdam University guy (Richard Lee) is a piece of garbage that will ruin lives. Do not vote for it or sign the petition.

"Some say Lee and Jones' measure doesn't go far enough. Dennis Peron, a proponent of 1996's successful medical marijuana ballot measure, Proposition 215, recently likened limits set by Lee and Jones' measure to a hypothetical law allowing only one bottle of wine in a home: "These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore."

There's no exception from the prohibition on "smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present" for parents in their homes, he noted in a recent statement. "We don't lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner, and we certainly don't tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance, so why start with cannabis?"

And taxation would maintain cannabis "as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs," Peron wrote. "Surely we can do better than this. How about just legalizing it?"

• The plans to legalize pot Assembly Bill 390: Introduced in February by Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, it would legalize marijuana cultivation, sales, possession and use by people 21 and older, regulating it somewhat like alcohol. A license to grow for sale would cost $5,000 to start and then $2,500 to renew each year, and a $50-per-ounce tax would be placed on retail sales. Ammiano said he hopes this would bring upward of $1.4 billion per year for drug abuse prevention efforts. No taxation would occur unless the federal marijuana ban is lifted; otherwise, the bill's only effect would be legalization of personal cultivation and use. Ammiano held the bill in committee this year, and is now rewriting it to put it forth again in January. -This and the CaliforniaCannabisIntiative are the best!!!

• The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010: Proposed by Oakland marijuana activists Richard Lee and Jeff Jones, it would legalize personal possession of up to an ounce of cannabis and up to 25 square feet of cultivation per home. It also would give local governments the option of whether to permit, regulate and tax commercial sales, a system akin to show alcohol is or isn't sold in "wet" and "dry" counties in some states. This seems to be the measure to watch; the proponents say their petition drive is surging, and its endorsements include that of Oakland mayoral candidate and former state Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata. For details, go to http://www.taxcannabis2010.org/ -This is such a piece of shit. I wanna choke the authors.

• The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act of 2010: Advanced by proponents Joe Rogoway, Omar Figueroa and James Clark, all of San Francisco, it would legalize personal cultivation and use without limits, but would require -- not just allow -- state and local governments to regulate and tax commercial marijuana cultivation and sales. Tax revenues would have to be spent on education, health care, environmental programs, public works and state parks. For details, go to http://www.californiacannabisinitiative.org/-This is the one to vote for!

• The Common Sense Act of 2010: Advanced by proponent John Donohue, of Long Beach, it would require the Legislature to adopt laws regulating and taxing marijuana within one year, but would let local governments choose whether to also tax marijuana's cultivation, sale, and use. For details, go to http://www.grasstax.org/ -This is not gonna make it and is also garbage.

[ShiningSkull]

Originally Posted by OG Dave

• The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act of 2010: Advanced by proponents Joe Rogoway, Omar Figueroa and James Clark, all of San Francisco, it would legalize personal cultivation and use without limits, but would require -- not just allow -- state and local governments to regulate and tax commercial marijuana cultivation and sales. Tax revenues would have to be spent on education, health care, environmental programs, public works and state parks. For details, go to California Cannabis Initiative: The Legalize, Regulate and Tax Marijuana Initiative-This is the one to vote for!

Thanks for the input, OG Dave. I like the California Cannabis Initiative, too.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by OG Dave

Tax Cannabis Act of 2010 by the Oaksterdam University guy (Richard Lee) is a piece of garbage that will ruin lives. Do not vote for it or sign the petition.

"Some say Lee and Jones' measure doesn't go far enough. Dennis Peron, a proponent of 1996's successful medical marijuana ballot measure, Proposition 215, recently likened limits set by Lee and Jones' measure to a hypothetical law allowing only one bottle of wine in a home: "These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore."

There's no exception from the prohibition on "smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present" for parents in their homes, he noted in a recent statement. "We don't lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner, and we certainly don't tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance, so why start with cannabis?"

And taxation would maintain cannabis "as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs," Peron wrote. "Surely we can do better than this. How about just legalizing it?"

• The plans to legalize pot Assembly Bill 390: Introduced in February by Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, it would legalize marijuana cultivation, sales, possession and use by people 21 and older, regulating it somewhat like alcohol. A license to grow for sale would cost $5,000 to start and then $2,500 to renew each year, and a $50-per-ounce tax would be placed on retail sales. Ammiano said he hopes this would bring upward of $1.4 billion per year for drug abuse prevention efforts. No taxation would occur unless the federal marijuana ban is lifted; otherwise, the bill's only effect would be legalization of personal cultivation and use. Ammiano held the bill in committee this year, and is now rewriting it to put it forth again in January. -This and the CaliforniaCannabisIntiative are the best!!!

• The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010: Proposed by Oakland marijuana activists Richard Lee and Jeff Jones, it would legalize personal possession of up to an ounce of cannabis and up to 25 square feet of cultivation per home. It also would give local governments the option of whether to permit, regulate and tax commercial sales, a system akin to show alcohol is or isn't sold in "wet" and "dry" counties in some states. This seems to be the measure to watch; the proponents say their petition drive is surging, and its endorsements include that of Oakland mayoral candidate and former state Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata. For details, go to Tax Cannabis 2010. -This is such a piece of shit. I wanna choke the authors.

• The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act of 2010: Advanced by proponents Joe Rogoway, Omar Figueroa and James Clark, all of San Francisco, it would legalize personal cultivation and use without limits, but would require -- not just allow -- state and local governments to regulate and tax commercial marijuana cultivation and sales. Tax revenues would have to be spent on education, health care, environmental programs, public works and state parks. For details, go to California Cannabis Initiative: The Legalize, Regulate and Tax Marijuana Initiative. -This is the one to vote for!

• The Common Sense Act of 2010: Advanced by proponent John Donohue, of Long Beach, it would require the Legislature to adopt laws regulating and taxing marijuana within one year, but would let local governments choose whether to also tax marijuana's cultivation, sale, and use. For details, go to Home. -This is not gonna make it and is also garbage.

IMHO, these initiatives illustrate some of the fundamental problems with our state government. Just look at the names of two of the proposals- #1- The Regulate, Control, and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010. #2- The Tax, Regulation, and Control Cannabis Act of 2010. I don't think these semantic similarities are accidential.

[ShiningSkull]

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

IMHO, these initiatives illustrate some of the fundamental problems with our state government. Just look at the names of two of the proposals- #1- The Regulate, Control, and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010. #2- The Tax, Regulation, and Control Cannabis Act of 2010. I don't think these semantic similarities are accidential.

Yeah, I think you're right VooDoo.

Didn't Uncle Jerry make up these names?

[pheed]

Can anyone answer what legally would happen if more than one of these gets passed?

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by ShiningSkull

Yeah, I think you're right VooDoo.

Didn't Uncle Jerry make up these names?

Damn, I dunno. If he did, he's got some splaining to do, eh?

Ya know the prospects in the governor's race are looking more grim by the day. I've mentioned this before, but I think it merits repetition- Brown's a friggin dinosaur. I ain't got nothing against older folks, but c'mon. In the words o' Jeffery Ross, dude's so old Abe Lincoln's high school was named after him.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by pheed

Can anyone answer what legally would happen if more than one of these gets passed?

Complete and total chaos would ensue.

[ShiningSkull]

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

Damn, I dunno. If he did, he's got some splaining to do, eh?

Ya know the prospects in the governor's race are looking more grim by the day. I've mentioned this before, but I think it merits repetition- Brown's a friggin dinosaur. I ain't got nothing against older folks, but c'mon. In the words o' Jeffery Ross, dude's so old Abe Lincoln's high school was named after him.

Ok, I'll bite. What's so funny about being old, young'un?

Seriously, how does his age hurt him? I don't think he's near death or anything.

Or is it just that you need a candidate you can fantasize about? Hmmm? VooDoo?

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by ShiningSkull

Ok, I'll bite. What's so funny about being old, young'un?

Seriously, how does his age hurt him? I don't think he's near death or anything.

Or is it just that you need a candidate you can fantasize about? Hmmm? VooDoo?

Well having a hottie in office doesn't HURT, but it's not the determining factor for me.

I'm sure there's a lot of older folks who are in great shape, both physically and mentally. But age takes a tremendous toll, and I think the Reagan years outta stand as an example of why advanced age should be seriously considered in politicians. Remember McCain's campaign? His staffers kept complaing that he refused to appear publically before 9 a.m. He did not have the stamina for a competitive national campaign. It stands to reason that someone who cannot keep up the rigors of the campaign trail may have problems dealing with hectic schedule that the job he's seeking demands.

That's all I's saying 'bout this. Hope I'm not offending anyone because I'm not trying to.

[ShiningSkull]

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

Well having a hottie in office doesn't HURT, but it's not the determining factor for me.

Ok, I won't bring up the pages in your school notebooks that are covered with you writing over and over, "Mrs. VooDoo Obama, First Lady."

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

I'm sure there's a lot of older folks who are in great shape, both physically and mentally. But age takes a tremendous toll, and I think the Reagan years outta stand as an example of why advanced age should be seriously considered in politicians. Remember McCain's campaign? His staffers kept complaing that he refused to appear publically before 9 a.m. He did not have the stamina for a competitive national campaign. It stands to reason that someone who cannot keep up the rigors of the campaign trail may have problems dealing with hectic schedule that the job he's seeking demands.

That's all I's saying 'bout this. Hope I'm not offending anyone because I'm not trying to.

Reagan and McCain are not the greatest examples. One had Alzheimer's and the other is lazy.

Let's see how Jerry does in the campaign. We should be able to tell if he's continually operating in a "senior moment." But, in general, 71 is not the end of the line.

[VooDoo Chile]

Originally Posted by ShiningSkull

Ok, I won't bring up the pages in your school notebooks that are covered with you writing over and over, "Mrs. VooDoo Obama, First Lady."



Reagan and McCain are not the greatest examples. One had Alzheimer's and the other is lazy.

Let's see how Jerry does in the campaign. We should be able to tell if he's continually operating in a "senior moment." But, in general, 71 is not the end of the line.

Fair enough. I'm willing to give Brown a chance. I'm assuming you remember his previous terms as governor?

Here's hoping he does a lot better than the infamous Heckofjob Brownie.

[ShiningSkull]

Originally Posted by VooDoo Chile

Fair enough. I'm willing to give Brown a chance. I'm assuming you remember his previous terms as governor?

Here's hoping he does a lot better than the infamous Heckofjob Brownie.

Oh, god! I hope Jerry doesn't get conflated with Heckofjob Brownie!

I remember his governorship. He was always denigrated in the press for his lifestyle. Seemed to take precedence over everything else. I think he learned from that.

[Dbelson]

Originally Posted by ShiningSkull

Golden State's green future

Richard Lee, left, president of Oaksterdam University in Oakland, and Jeff Jones,
director of the Patient ID Center, have crafted a marijuana legalization measure they're pushing to get on the November 2010 ballot in California.

By Josh Richman
Oakland Tribune
Posted: 10/31/2009 01:39:55 PM PDT
Updated: 11/01/2009 08:17:07 AM PST


Just in from Stockton, Mary parks her car and enters the downtown Oakland coffeehouse — but she hasn't come all this way for a cup of joe.

Instead, she peruses a menu of dozens of strains and preparations of marijuana, all grown in California, all taxed, all legal. Producing a wad of cash and proof of her age — but no doctor's note — for a fragrant ounce of "purple kush," she departs a satisfied customer, perhaps grabbing a snack at a nearby restaurant before hitting the highway.

This could be California's near future, what with three marijuana-legalization initiatives in circulation for the November 2010 ballot. A legislative bill is pending as well, although it's being revamped by its author.

Groups such as the National Association for the Reform of Marijuana Laws and the Marijuana Policy Project favored waiting at least until 2012, when a presidential vote might mobilize a younger, more progressive electorate. But these measures' proponents believe shifting attitudes and the economic crisis make 2010 the time to act.

They say legalization makes fiscal sense as well as moral sense — ending the centurylong practice of criminalizing a widely used substance that's less harmful than alcohol, America's legal drug of choice. They tout an immediate, massive savings in state and local law enforcement and corrections costs, and perhaps significant new revenue; a state Board of Equalization study found
could reap $1.3 billion a year from licensing and taxing what's already its biggest — albeit off-the-books — cash crop, if the federal ban on marijuana is lifted.

But many in law enforcement contend whatever money is saved and made wouldn't be worth the harm done to communities.

Measure of movement

Of the three ballot measures seeking petition signatures, the one with the most money and buzz behind it would legalize personal cultivation and use but would let local governments choose whether to allow commercial cultivation and retail sales of up to an ounce at a time, creating a patchwork of "wet" and "dry" cities and counties.

"It's up to the local jurisdictions for what works best, just as we have alcohol laws," said co-proponent and Oaksterdam University President Richard Lee, who could see his business — providing "quality training for the cannabis industry" — grow exponentially if his measure passes.

Co-proponent Jeff Jones directed the now-defunct Oakland Cannabis Buyers Cooperative and now runs its successor, the Patient ID Center, in Oakland and Los Angeles. They've hired a professional petition drive management firm, and went in expecting to spend about $1 per signature.

"We got 206,000 in the first three weeks, so that's about 32 percent in 14 percent of the time," Lee said. "We think we'll be done maybe a little after Thanksgiving at the rate we're going. People have been ripping the petition blanks out of our hands, they're so eager to sign them."

But would marijuana be sold in coffeehouses, in dedicated stores, in liquor stores or in a neighborhood drugstore? Where and when could one smoke? What kind of advertising would be permitted? Could California employees of national companies be fired for testing positive for cannabis? All these questions and many more would be left up to state and local lawmakers.

Lee hopes places that choose to allow, regulate and tax commercial sales — most likely the more liberal, coastal areas at first — would adopt a "coffeehouse" model like Amsterdam's, which proliferated for a while in Oakland under California's medical marijuana law. Such businesses balance sensitivity to the community with knowledgeable customer service, better than impersonal mass-market retail sales, he said.

Nation vs. states

The wild card is federal law, which still bans all cannabis cultivation, use and sale. The Obama administration advised federal prosecutors last month not to pursue medical marijuana patients and providers adhering to their states' laws. But while health is often constitutionally considered to be within states' purview, interstate commerce and control of dangerous drugs has been federal territory, and there's no telling whether the first county to authorize a big, commercial farm growing marijuana for recreational use would see it immediately busted by the Drug Enforcement Administration.

All the measures' proponents hope legalization in California — a state comprising about 12 percent of the nation's population, and a higher percentage of its agriculture and commerce — would lead other states and eventually the federal government to do the same. Until then, California once again would be a trailblazer, with all the potential headaches accompanying that distinction.

Those headaches would include increased drug abuse and its accompanying crime, according to law enforcement officials who testified at an Assembly Public Safety Committee hearing Wednesday in Sacramento.

Committee chairman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, in February introduced a bill that would legalize marijuana cultivation, sales, possession and use by adults, regulating it somewhat like alcohol; Wednesday's hearing was to gather input as he rewrites the bill to address concerns raised this year.

Officials from various law enforcement agencies and associations testified that legalization under any scheme could lead to more, not less, use by children; more people driving under the influence, causing more injuries and deaths; decreased worker productivity that could hurt the economy; and the continuance of a thriving black market. California Peace Officers' Association President John Standish said there's "no way marijuana legalization could protect or promote society — in fact, it radically diminishes it."

After the hearing, Sally Fairchild — deputy director of the Northern California High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, who had testified on behalf of the California Narcotic Officers Association — said a wet-and-dry county scenario like that envisioned by Lee and Jones' measure would be "unenforceable" as a practical matter. Any county choosing to regulate commercial cultivation and sale will become "the dope dealer for that region," fueling rampant black market operations.

Cops aren't only critics

Some say Lee and Jones' measure doesn't go far enough. Dennis Peron, a proponent of 1996's successful medical marijuana ballot measure, Proposition 215, recently likened limits set by Lee and Jones' measure to a hypothetical law allowing only one bottle of wine in a home: "These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore."

There's no exception from the prohibition on "smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present" for parents in their homes, he noted in a recent statement. "We don't lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner, and we certainly don't tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance, so why start with cannabis?"

And taxation would maintain cannabis "as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs," Peron wrote. "Surely we can do better than this. How about just legalizing it?"

Alternative views

Another proposed ballot measure seems closer to that scenario. One of its proponents, San Francisco attorney James Clark, was helping Lee and Jones draft their measure when he hit upon what he believes is a better plan.

Lee and Jones' limits on personal cultivation and use encourages "very much a commercial model, very much keeping prohibition alive," Clark said, while his proposal seeks to "make this like soybeans" so anyone can grow and use as much as they want for themselves, which he believes will actually reduce demand in the long run. Commercial cultivation and sales would be licensed and taxed; Clark envisions big farms furnishing cannabis products to retail outlets — perhaps liquor stores, perhaps drugstores.

Clark said his measure "was never meant to be a really viable petition," lacking funding and full-time staff members, but "we're really starting to get traction. "... If our growth continues to be exponential, it's possible we'll make the ballot." He acknowledges, however, that Lee and Jones' measure is more likely to qualify.

John Donohue, 84, of Long Beach — a marijuana user since 1946, embittered by his five arrests for the drug — offers another measure, co-authored with longtime marijuana and Peace and Freedom Party activist Casey Peters, of Los Angeles. Donohue said they tried to keep it simple — specifics of taxation and regulation would "just have to be worked out in the process" — and hoped people would get behind it, but their petition drive has stalled as Lee and Jones' measure gets most of the exposure.

"(We are) giving various interviews and telling people what our position is and hoping we can start a movement," he said. "The main point is: Stop arresting people for a non-crime. I have bumper stickers that say, 'Show me the crime.'"‰"

The next Budweiser?

Ultimately, any legalized marijuana scenario will have pluses and minuses, says Mark Kleiman, professor of public policy and director of the Drug Policy Analysis Program at the UCLA.

"How much different does it look than today? You don't have to get a phony doctor's recommendation," he said. "How much bigger would the market be than it is today? There's no way to tell."

But Kleiman predicts it would be bigger, especially if commercial advertising — print, online, radio and television ads, billboards, catchy jingles — becomes commonplace.

"Do we get brand names? You can imagine this becoming like the liquor industry," he said. "I don't think it's the end of the world. But if we go the whole commercial route, I think you will have more drug abuse."

If a million more Californians take up marijuana use, "we'll have another 100,000 pretty screwed up on it. Being screwed up on marijuana might not be as bad as being screwed up on alcohol, but it's still bad enough," Kleiman said. "Unlike some people, I don't think the stuff's harmless."

Yet, with careful regulation and steps to avoid commercialization, California could do far worse, he said. "Do I believe the state could get half a billion out of this (in taxes)? Yeah I do. Do I think it could also save a couple of hundred million (on law enforcement)? Yes, probably."


• The plans to legalize pot Assembly Bill 390: Introduced in February by Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, it would legalize marijuana cultivation, sales, possession and use by people 21 and older, regulating it somewhat like alcohol. A license to grow for sale would cost $5,000 to start and then $2,500 to renew each year, and a $50-per-ounce tax would be placed on retail sales. Ammiano said he hopes this would bring upward of $1.4 billion per year for drug abuse prevention efforts. No taxation would occur unless the federal marijuana ban is lifted; otherwise, the bill's only effect would be legalization of personal cultivation and use. Ammiano held the bill in committee this year, and is now rewriting it to put it forth again in January.

• The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010: Proposed by Oakland marijuana activists Richard Lee and Jeff Jones, it would legalize personal possession of up to an ounce of cannabis and up to 25 square feet of cultivation per home. It also would give local governments the option of whether to permit, regulate and tax commercial sales, a system akin to show alcohol is or isn't sold in "wet" and "dry" counties in some states. This seems to be the measure to watch; the proponents say their petition drive is surging, and its endorsements include that of Oakland mayoral candidate and former state Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata. For details, go to Tax Cannabis 2010.

• The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act of 2010: Advanced by proponents Joe Rogoway, Omar Figueroa and James Clark, all of San Francisco, it would legalize personal cultivation and use without limits, but would require -- not just allow -- state and local governments to regulate and tax commercial marijuana cultivation and sales. Tax revenues would have to be spent on education, health care, environmental programs, public works and state parks. For details, go to California Cannabis Initiative: The Legalize, Regulate and Tax Marijuana Initiative.

• The Common Sense Act of 2010: Advanced by proponent John Donohue, of Long Beach, it would require the Legislature to adopt laws regulating and taxing marijuana within one year, but would let local governments choose whether to also tax marijuana's cultivation, sale, and use. For details, go to Home.

Wait did this person get meds with a doctors note at this coffee shop in Oakland

[ShiningSkull]

Originally Posted by ShiningSkull

Ultimately, any legalized marijuana scenario will have pluses and minuses, says Mark Kleiman, professor of public policy and director of the Drug Policy Analysis Program at the UCLA.

"How much different does it look than today? You don't have to get a phony doctor's recommendation," he said. "How much bigger would the market be than it is today? There's no way to tell."

But Kleiman predicts it would be bigger, especially if commercial advertising — print, online, radio and television ads, billboards, catchy jingles — becomes commonplace.

"Do we get brand names? You can imagine this becoming like the liquor industry," he said. "I don't think it's the end of the world. But if we go the whole commercial route, I think you will have more drug abuse."

If a million more Californians take up marijuana use, "we'll have another 100,000 pretty screwed up on it. Being screwed up on marijuana might not be as bad as being screwed up on alcohol, but it's still bad enough," Kleiman said. "Unlike some people, I don't think the stuff's harmless."

Yet, with careful regulation and steps to avoid commercialization, California could do far worse, he said. "Do I believe the state could get half a billion out of this (in taxes)? Yeah I do. Do I think it could also save a couple of hundred million (on law enforcement)? Yes, probably."

OMG I didn't even notice this was the same partisan UCLA Public Policy Officer Mark Kleiman, with whom we are familiar.

UCLA Public Policy Officer disparages MMJ

[alleycat]

I think this is great, but they need to clarify the part about parental use. I agree that you shouldn't be allowed to smoke it in front of kids, nor should you be impaired while caring for them, but parents should be allowed to consume it in other ways when kids are in bed, ie edibles and if another parent is present. And what about MMJ patients who have children?

[DankJews]

Thanks SS And OG DAVE For The Info!!!


.:Stay Medicated:.