[referee4]

Research by a group of scientists studying the effects of heavy marijuana use suggests that withdrawal from the use of marijuana is similar to what is experienced by people when they quit smoking cigarettes: bad feeling, but no real withdrawal. Abstinence from each of these drugs appears to cause several common symptoms, such as irritability, anger and trouble sleeping - based on self reporting in a recent study of 12 (!) heavy users of both marijuana and cigarettes. The authors recognize that the small sample size is a limitation in this study, but the results are consistent with other studies indicating that marijuana withdrawal effects are clinically important. And, they are not surprising, given that any forced change of habits does lead to similar complaints.



“These results indicate that some marijuana users experience withdrawal effects when they try to quit, and that these effects should be considered by clinicians treating people with problems related to heavy marijuana use,” says lead investigator in the study, Ryan Vandrey, Ph.D., of the Department of Psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

Marijuana is the most widely used illicit drug in the United States. Admissions in substance abuse treatment facilities in which marijuana was the primary problem substance have more than doubled since the early 1990s and now rank similar to cocaine and heroin with respect to total number of yearly treatment episodes in the United States, says Vandrey.

He points out that a lack of data, until recently, has led to cannabis withdrawal symptoms not being characterized or included in medical reference literature such as the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Edition, (DSM-IV) or the International Classification of Diseases, 10th edition (ICD-10).

Since the drafting of the DSM-IV in 1994, an increasing number of studies have surfaced suggesting that cannabis has significant withdrawal symptoms. What makes Vandrey’s recent study unique is that it is the first study that compares marijuana withdrawal symptoms to withdrawal symptoms that are clinically recognized by the medical community - specifically the tobacco withdrawal syndrome.

“Since tobacco withdrawal symptoms are well documented and included in the DSM-IV and the IDC-10, we can infer from the results of this comparison that marijuana withdrawal is also clinically significant and should be included in these reference materials and considered as a target for improving treatment outcomes,” says Vandrey.

Vandrey added that this is the first “controlled” comparison of the two withdrawal syndromes in that data was obtained using rigorous scientific methods - abstinence from drugs was confirmed objectively, procedures were identical during each abstinence period, and abstinence periods occurred in a random order. That tobacco and marijuana withdrawal symptoms were reported by the same participants, thus eliminating the likelihood that results reflect physiological differences between subjects, is also a strength of the study.

Interestingly, the study also revealed that half of the participants found it easier to abstain from both substances than it was to stop marijuana or tobacco individually, whereas the remaining half had the opposite response.

“Given the general consensus among clinicians that it is harder to quit more than one substance at the same time, these results suggest the need for more research on treatment planning for people who concurrently use more than one drug on a regular basis,” says Vandrey.

Vandrey’s study, which appears in the January issue of the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence, followed six men and six women at the University of Vermont in Burlington and Wake Forest University School of Medicine in Winston-Salem, N.C., for a total of six weeks. All were over 18 (median age 28.2 years), used marijuana at least 25 days a month and smoked at least 10 cigarettes a day. None of the subjects intended to quit using either substance, did not use any other illicit drugs in the prior month, were not on any psychotropic medication, did not have a psychiatric disorder, and if female, were not pregnant.

For the first week, participants maintained their normal use of cigarettes and marijuana. For the remaining five weeks, they were randomly chosen to refrain from using either cigarettes, marijuana or both substances for five-day periods separated by nine-day periods of normal use. In order to confirm abstinence, patients were given daily quantitative urine toxicology tests of tobacco and marijuana metabolites.

Withdrawal symptoms were self reported on a daily basis Monday through Friday using a withdrawal symptom checklist that listed scores for aggression, anger, appetite change, depressed mood, irritability, anxiety/nervousness, restlessness, sleep difficulty, strange dreams and other, less common withdrawal symptoms. Patients also provided an overall score for discomfort they experienced during each abstinence period.

Results showed that overall withdrawal severity associated with marijuana alone and tobacco alone was of similar frequency and intensity. Sleep disturbance seemed to be more pronounced during marijuana abstinence, while some of the general mood effects (anxiety, anger) seemed to be greater during tobacco abstinence. In addition, six of the participants reported that quitting both marijuana and tobacco at the same time was more difficult than quitting either drug alone, whereas the remaining six found that it was easier to quit marijuana or cigarettes individually than it was to abstain from the two substances simultaneously.


A within-subject comparison of withdrawal symptoms during abstinence from cannabis, tobacco, and both substances.

Vandrey RG, Budney AJ, Hughes JR, Liguori A.
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.

A cannabis withdrawal syndrome has been characterized, but its clinical significance remains uncertain. One method of assessing the significance of cannabis withdrawal is to compare it directly to an established withdrawal syndrome. The present study was a within-subject comparison of cannabis, tobacco, and combined cannabis and tobacco withdrawal among users of both substances. Participants (N=12) completed three 5-day periods of abstinence in a randomized order, separated by 9-day periods of usual substance use. Overall withdrawal severity associated with cannabis alone and tobacco alone was of a similar magnitude. Withdrawal during simultaneous cessation of both substances was more severe than for each substance alone, but these differences were of short duration and substantial individual differences were noted. These results are consistent with other evidence suggesting cannabis withdrawal is clinically important and warrants detailed description in the DSM-V and ICD-11. Additional research is needed to replicate these findings and to further investigate the effects of abstaining from multiple drugs simultaneously

Originally Posted by referee4

All were over 18 (median age 28.2 years), used marijuana at least 25 days a month and smoked at least 10 cigarettes a day.

So they followed only twelve people who use both tobacco and marijuana. How about comparing people who only smoke cigarettes and people who only smoke marijuana? Wouldn't that provide better data than studying people who are using marijuana, a generally non-physically addictive substance, and nicotine, an extremely physically addictive substance, at the same time?

Or am I just ?

[Will]

Originally Posted by darkintheglow

So they followed only twelve people who use both tobacco and marijuana. How about comparing people who only smoke cigarettes and people who only smoke marijuana? Wouldn't that provide better data than studying people who are using marijuana, a generally non-physically addictive substance, and nicotine, an extremely physically addictive substance, at the same time?

Or am I just ?

If you ask me this so-called professional study is so filled with flaws it's ridiculous, beginning the incredibly small number of participants (12 wtf), and everything after that, I could go on but why?
The whole study is based on Subjective data and destined for the good old Journal of Drug and Alcohol Dependence, which may explain why MJ is shown in the worst light possible.

Speaking from my first hand experience, what is posted of this this study is complete B.S., quiting MJ is a breeze compared to those evil Cigarettes, at least for myself and from observing pretty much any friend I've ever seen go through quiting either one.(very subjective too of course)

Thanks for posting though Referee

[Organo]

physical withdrawal from nicotine is horrible. nervousness, aches and pains, appetite loss. i didnt feel any of these symptoms when i refrained from using cannabis for a month. even after heavy daily use.

[DSW90049]

Bullcrap
Horsepuckey
Nonsense
Drivel
Absurd
&untrue.

I often go without MMJ when traveling on business to states that aren't enlightened----NEVER once do I feel anything in particular.

And, I've been medicating since 1967.

You gotta love these studies. Did you know that sober drivers are the most dangerous on the road? Why yessir, some 60% of all accidents are caused by sober drivers! So, have that nightcap! Fun with numbers; absurdity with studies. Is anybody else sick of these studies that diss MMJ already? Is any other substance on earth held up to these standards?

[Frankie]

Thank God I've got some heroin to help me kick my MMJ addiction.

Originally Posted by Frankie

Thank God I've got some heroin to help me kick my MMJ addiction.

Don't joke around about Mr H,.
I have personal friends that are and have been junkies their entire life and it's no joking manor,.
go ahead try it like I did and throw up all night,. it's so fun!!
~ you don't want to OD the first time so just be sure and have a pro around to watch over your stupid ass hugging the toilet all night,. ,.

MMJ has a very strong mental addiction \ not any physical withdrawals are ever going to be part of it,.

After 28 years of medicating with weed I can honestly say I've gone without more than once for over a month or two with no problems,.
but I sure mentally wanted to smoke a J to calm down every moment,.
with weed a thousand miles away and no way to access any
I just dealt without having it near,.

[Puff Now Pay Later]

I shot meth for 14 years, heroin 4 1/2 years, coke a few times, X a few times,...... I can honestly say that I fear going without meds. waaaaaay more than ever going through one of my "old" addictions all over again.

[indigonightowl]

Originally Posted by referee4

Abstinence from each of these drugs appears to cause several common symptoms, such as irritability, anger and trouble sleeping - based on self reporting in a recent study of 12 (!) heavy users of both marijuana and cigarettes. The authors recognize that the small sample size is a limitation in this study, but the results are consistent with other studies indicating that marijuana withdrawal effects are clinically important. And, they are not surprising, given that any forced change of habits does lead to similar complaints.

Oh please. Cigarettes are physically addictive. MJ is totally different. I think the last sentence is the most telling - any time you force people to give up something they're used to doing or using, you're going to get similar results. You wanna see real irritability, anger and trouble sleeping, make me give up chocolate or email for a week. You wanna see real withdrawal, on the other hand, cut off the nation's coffee supply. Or its processed sugar supply, for that matter. Then we can talk about the difference between being physical addicted to a substance and being psychologically accustomed to one.

[KushMeister]

I'm not sure that I'd consider myself 'addicted' to Marijuana....

But I've recently found that I just Cannot Fall Asleep without it.

Addicted....No
Dependant upon.... I think maybe.

Originally Posted by Puff Now Pay Later

I shot meth for 14 years, heroin 4 1/2 years, coke a few times, X a few times,...... I can honestly say that I fear going without meds. waaaaaay more than ever going through one of my "old" addictions all over again.

WoW you was all over the board,. usually people like just Uppers or Downers,.
not from one extreme to the other,. glad you survived bro,.
My good friend used to have a $300 dollar a day heroin addiction,. (try to afford that!)
I forgot how many times I've cooked her shit up while she was too sick to even function,.
She been clean for 2 years now,. on methadone and doing well,.
Sorry but those 14 years of Meth took off 20 years of your life,.
Did you like Blue Oyster Cult and Judas Priest also,. :)
I heard tweekers liked them,. I wouldn't know,..

Originally Posted by KushMeister

I'm not sure that I'd consider myself 'addicted' to Marijuana....

But I've recently found that I just Cannot Fall Asleep without it.

Addicted....No
Dependant upon.... I think maybe.

I'm an Addict,.
I turn into a real A hole letting everyone around know 'I'm not happy at all' ,.
It 'is' out of control no matter how hard I try to control my anger,.
feed your addiction,. keep medicated, and never run out is my thing these days,.

and don't worry, Be Happy,. :)

[indigonightowl]

It seems like it's hard to get an accurate read re: "addiction" from MMJ users as opposed to recreational users, since we're using cannabis to treat symptoms - I mean, somebody could say that the effects of quitting cannabis use are increased nausea and inability to eat, or excessive pain or inability to sleep, but coming from a MMJ user, that's basically the status quo without MMJ use anyway.

[Zabiela]

If you've been addicted to tobacco, and have smoked marijuana regularly, and taken break from both, you know just how stupid this article is.

They just decided to use the same adjectives to describe both....

[*SWEETLEAF*]

the first time i went through withdrawls was not pretty, thats putting it mildly.
i had no choice, i was broke for a minute. the first night was gonna let me know what kinda problem i was dealing with. the second night, i had wierd dreams, couldn't sleep, waking up pouring with sweat for. about 5 nights i went through this.

so after that i couldn't stand it anymore, i had to find some.


lets keep in mind i've medicated everyday since 93. so i had been smoking atleast ten years when this had happend.

april of 2007 something really dramatic happend, i mean really bad. it hit so close to home i didn't think of medicating for 6 months and i didn't, at all!.
i stopped for 6 months. the night i stopped, from the day i started, i had ZERO withdrawls. never really even wanted to either. i guess when you go through something like i did. maybe the good lord was looking out for me. the addiction was completely gone. i don't think he wanted to see me suffer any more then i did before.

in the next couple months, it looks like im goona have to quit for a while.
this was the courts choice. so im really worried about it. i hope i can get through it. back to pain meds and stomache aches. Oh well.

so i've never smoked cigarettes, so i couldn't tell you about that.
i guess i'm trying to say, maybe it's all in our heads...?

[moms_brownies]

Originally Posted by DSW90049

Bullcrap
Horsepuckey
Nonsense
Drivel
Absurd
&untrue.

I often go without MMJ when traveling on business to states that aren't enlightened----NEVER once do I feel anything in particular.

And, I've been medicating since 1967.

You gotta love these studies. Did you know that sober drivers are the most dangerous on the road? Why yessir, some 60% of all accidents are caused by sober drivers! So, have that nightcap! Fun with numbers; absurdity with studies. Is anybody else sick of these studies that diss MMJ already? Is any other substance on earth held up to these standards?

After 37 years of daily coffin-nailing I quit. It was one of the hardest drugs I ever stopped abusing... After 58 days of the patch, I felt human again... I had gone without weed for months at a time when we lived in an intolerant state, and never felt any withdrawals from it!!
TG for California!!
:slaugh: MOM

[resipsa]

Oh for heavens sake. Coffee is more of a bitch to withdraw from then marijuana. I get so sick of these studies. One thing the article doesn't tell you is who funded the study. NIDA perhaps?

Originally Posted by indigonightowl

It seems like it's hard to get an accurate read re: "addiction" from MMJ users as opposed to recreational users, since we're using cannabis to treat symptoms - I mean, somebody could say that the effects of quitting cannabis use are increased nausea and inability to eat, or excessive pain or inability to sleep, but coming from a MMJ user, that's basically the status quo without MMJ use anyway.

Exactly! My bad CFS symptoms could definitely be interpreted as withdrawal symptoms...except that I was having them long before I became a MMJ patient and was only smoking once in a blue moon.

[kpeterka]

why give up budd?

[moms_brownies]

My offspring turned me on to "Super-High Me" A great documentary!! Well worth watching
:slaugh: MOM

[sagebailey]

I have been a regular pot smoker for years and have quit at various times without a problem (new job drug testing, pregancy and breastfeeding), absolutely no symptoms other than some mild cravings (esp after a bad day at work!) So I have no idea what they are talking about. Nicotine is a whole different drug with highly addictive properties. I have worked with people who have been hooked on every kind of drug possible and the only one they have trouble quitting is cigarettes.

[moms_brownies]

Originally Posted by kpeterka

why give up budd?

EXACTLY!!!!!!!
:slaugh: MOM

[Pops]

No I Call BS

[slkjay]

I've smoked Marijuana for about 14 years and smoked cig's about 15 years. I stopped smoking Marijuana for 1yr just because and had no withdrawls. My friends around me would offer it to me and I would just pass it off.
I was upto almost a pack a-day so I stopped smoking cig's about 10 mnths ago and OH BABY! I would get cravings thru the day, feel antsy, anxious, irritated I mean it took me a while to get used to it.
Aside from that, I didnt know what to do with the extra time that I used to spend smoking , lol

[Pops]

Originally Posted by slkjay

I've smoked Marijuana for about 14 years and smoked cig's about 15 years. I stopped smoking Marijuana for 1yr just because and had no withdrawls. My friends around me would offer it to me and I would just pass it off.
I was upto almost a pack a-day so I stopped smoking cig's about 10 mnths ago and OH BABY! I would get cravings thru the day, feel antsy, anxious, irritated I mean it took me a while to get used to it.
Aside from that, I didnt know what to do with the extra time that I used to spend smoking , lol

I agree with on this 100% excpet with your amount of time you had, but mine is almost tripled to your amount. Cigs are the pitfall to all IMHO, And MMJ has been a Godsend for me and I am sure it is with Most of us.
Thx for your input Dude