Originally Posted by stealthviper

I would like to clarify a comment I made, that may have been misconstrued. I referred to GLACA as a trade association, and they certainly are, and there is nothing wrong with that. Trade associations are vital to improving the way businesses operate, and for networking between business owners-something the co-op world sorely needs, thus my support for GLACA.

It is very common for a Music store who is a member of NAMM (music trade assoc-very large) to post a decal in the window to attest to the fact, and to let potential customers know that they abide by the guidelines set forth by the organization. (Sound Familiar?). Said guidelines, if followed diligently, ensure excellent customer service. Price and quality of goods is never addressed. It is also common for an Authorized Dealer for, say, Fender, to post a Fender Authorized Dealer decal in the window, if Fender says they can. These practices are very valuable to the consumer, and signify that the retailer has agreed to stand by his product and services.

If one does not like the guidelines GLACA has established, call them-they have expressed willingness to listen to anyone (outside of owner/operator's meetings), so why don't you all take them up on it, and not just in this thread.

I also notice that there is room in this world for both and Auto Dealer's Association and Consumer Reports. They both need each other, and so does the public.

And trash-talking only shows a lack of class. I have given the folks on this forum a bit more credit than that.....

Peace, please,
sv

Damn,very well put.

[Goldenstatecollective]

Lazlo has been at every raid.

every protest.

every council meeting.

Patients risk as much as the collective's in there own way.

I always refer to a line of the OCBC when it comes to these things.

"I understand that medical marijuana, while being a well-known effective therapeutic agent, is still illegal in this country. Therefore, by signing this form, all members of OCBC are committing an act of collective Federal civil resistance."

you smoke your medicine your ass is on the line.


period.

this is all infighting.

I posted the GLACA Protocols for those who haven't read them.
Some people haven't checked out http://www.caregiversalliance.org
Sometimes having the facts can clarify the issue.
I leave it up to you to decide if these goals are harmful to you or your medication needs.

Our Safety and Operational Protocols for
GLACA Collectives and Cooperatives

These protocols were developed and ratified by GLACA members to
help protect medical cannabis patients and our community.
Community input is always welcome.


Restriction of Membership. Membership in a medical cannabis
collective shall be limited to qualified patients and their primary
caregivers as defined by California Health and Safety Code Section
11362.5 (Proposition 215).

Screening of Members. Collectives must make reasonable efforts to
ensure that all members are legally qualified under California Health
and Safety Code Section 11263.5. Verification of member status
includes the following elements:
(1) Inspection of an original copy of a letter of recommendation from a
licensed physician; (2) Personal contact with the physician or his or
her agent to verify the written recommendation; (3) Verification of the
validity of the physician’s license; and (4) Verification of the patient's
identity and California residency with state-issued identification.

Restriction on Distribution. Collectives shall not provide cannabis to any person in an amount not consistent with
personal medical use.

No Diversion to Non-Members. No collective, member, or agent of a collective shall sell, barter, give away, or otherwise
distribute cannabis to persons who are not qualified patients or caregivers.

Records. Collectives shall maintain accurate patient records necessary to demonstrate patient eligibility under the law. All
patient records shall be kept in a secure location and regarded as strictly confidential.

Business Practices. Collectives shall maintain the highest possible professional standards regarding the operation of
their business affairs, including obtaining any required permits, licenses, registrations, etc.

Nondiscrimination. Collectives shall not discriminate on the basis of age, gender, race, national origin, sexual orientation,
physical disability, mental condition, or socio-economic status of any member.

Security. Collectives shall maintain adequate security to protect the welfare of patients and the community.

Good Neighbors. Collectives shall conduct their business in a manner that is respectful of their neighbors and the
community. The facilities shall be kept clean and in good repair, both inside and out. Collectives shall seek to ensure that
there is no adverse impact to surrounding homes and businesses.

Public Education. Collectives shall educate their members and the community regarding the responsible use of cannabis,
the potential risks and benefits of cannabis use, and other issues impacting their well-being.
-----
Sounds like good for co-op's which is good for patients which is good for MMJ as a whole.

I just don't see the harm in this.

[allorganic]

Originally Posted by Goldenstatecollective

Patients risk as much as the collective's in there own way.

Collectives need patients both to serve and to protest when they get raided, but I can't agree with this statement. A collective operator who has more than 100 clones on his shelf will face a 5 year mandatory minimum in Federal Prison if ever convicted.

Also, patients are totally protected under State law, and the Feds are never going to take a personal use case. They just aren't. (Steve McWilliams is a grave exception). Lana Lane's case is proof that sometimes collectives risk even hassles in State Court.

I'm a patient too, and I totally support patients, but no, patients do not risk as much as collective operators.

It's nothing special. Just good business practices.

Originally Posted by Goldenstatecollective

Lazlo has been at every raid.

every protest.

every council meeting.

Patients risk as much as the collective's in there own way.

I always refer to a line of the OCBC when it comes to these things.

"I understand that medical marijuana, while being a well-known effective therapeutic agent, is still illegal in this country. Therefore, by signing this form, all members of OCBC are committing an act of collective Federal civil resistance."

you smoke your medicine your ass is on the line.


period.

this is all infighting.

That was not infighting just stating facts my friend. And trust me collective operators always have more risk no matter what ocbc say's.

[stealthviper]

Originally Posted by LAMMJactivist

That was not infighting just stating facts my friend. And trust me collective operators always have more risk no matter what ocbc say's.

This is correct. This is why the question as to wether collective operators are making outrageous profits is so meaningless. Most retailers would not tell you how much they make, either-it's simply none of your biz.

How much the donation rate is, now, that's another issue, not really related to the above. If a co-op owner hit the Super Lotto and decided to literally give away his entire inventory, how is that ANYONE'S biz but his, and why would you care, if the meds were good and FREE? I realize this is an extreme example, but some of the posters on here seem to need it.

It is certainly true that a co-op owner ALWAYS carries the risk of Federal prosecution, while patients hardly ever do.

It's simple: price is always there, and there is always somebody ready to undercut everbody else, and they might for a while, but usually end up stabilizing or closing. The ability to trust your chosen co-op is usually worth an extra $5, but hopefully your chosen collective has low donation rates as well. When you consider the price of gas lately, neighborhood places are starting to look really good. The patient must decide for him/herself what is important to him/her.

Peace,
sv

[Goldenstatecollective]

We all take our risks.

I just don't feel a heightened level of risk entitles my opinion to a sense of veraciousness.

Everyone has a voice and GLCA is taking the steps to listen to each one of them!

[handscreate]

Originally Posted by LAMMJactivist

Please try to understand that number one there are currently many patient groups around the L.A. area. I would suggest that you attend those meetings and maybe (Just an Idea right now) a representitive of those groups can and will be invited to some of our meetings. I believe this could be a positive thing.

Number two We did it this way because under the current climate it is not the patients butts on the line everday in these collectives. We are the ones that risk our freedom "Every Day". Collective operators generally because of this really do not want to be in a room full of people they do not know and thats just the way it is going to be for most operators there are some of us that are willing to put a face on it no matter what the risk because I truely believe that not only am I doing what is right I am doing what I was meant to do. You must also understand that we all come in contact with a lot of patients daily and have attempt rigorously to get patients to get up and take part, but it seem's we plan meetings for patients or ask them to come to city hall or to a protest ahhh we get maybe if we are lucky a couple hundred. Now if it is anyone that knows how many patients there are in the LA area it is us. So, I say to you and all the others on this thread that feel that you need a louder voice come forward now and start a patients commission or what ever you would like to call it and fill a room of over 200 people and I and I am sure many other members of GLACA would be glad to come and help you organize. I'll be there! Until then this is what we got so let's try to make it work.

A little story:

While sitting in a awards banquet for the Winston Tire Company many years ago the speaker Sam Winston stood at the microphone quietly for a couple of minutes as every sat there waiting for him to speak, When he did he yelled "Everybody stand up!" which of course everyone thought this is nuts but relented. Again it went silent until he yelled again " Pick up your chair and look under it!" While looking under our chairs three people found a fresh one hundred dollar bill taped to the bottom of their chair. Sam calmly stated (in a southern drawel)"It just goes to show ya,if ya get off your ass ya just might find what your looking for!".

The moral being people need to quit just talking about but instead as Larry the Cable Guy say's Get-er-done.

I'm already working on a patient accreditation group, in which, shortly after forming I plan to invite dispensaries to join. I'll let you know when I've got a little more on paper, and I'd like to see you or another rep from Eagle Rock Colelctive there. My doors, meetings & ears will always be open to patients, dispensary owners/operators and law enforcement should they ask to voice their opinions (or provide insight) as well.

I agree that dispensary owners do put their asses on the line everyday, much more than many patients realize, but many patients put their asses on the line as well, whether it be a rally, protest, court appearance, vending, etc. Don't think for a second that the patient bringing you those 100 clones for your shelf isn't risking just as much if not more, as they often do NOT have the patient voice & support during their trials and tribulations. Just proves again that we are all in this together and everyones voice needs to be heard, whether it's a dispensary, vendor or patient. Again, I'll await my invitation.

And by the way, I used that same $100 bill tactic years ago when I was traveling the USA teaching a large corporations sales people how to properly sell. It's a motivator for sure.

Originally Posted by handscreate

I'm already working on a patient accreditation group, in which, shortly after forming I plan to invite dispensaries to join. I'll let you know when I've got a little more on paper, and I'd like to see you or another rep from Eagle Rock Colelctive there. My doors, meetings & ears will always be open to patients, dispensary owners/operators and law enforcement should they ask to voice their opinions (or provide insight) as well.

I agree that dispensary owners do put their asses on the line everyday, much more than many patients realize, but many patients put their asses on the line as well, whether it be a rally, protest, court appearance, vending, etc. Don't think for a second that the patient bringing you those 100 clones for your shelf isn't risking just as much if not more, as they often do NOT have the patient voice & support during their trials and tribulations. Just proves again that we are all in this together and everyones voice needs to be heard, whether it's a dispensary, vendor or patient. Again, I'll await my invitation.

And by the way, I used that same $100 bill tactic years ago when I was traveling the USA teaching a large corporations sales people how to properly sell. It's a motivator for sure.

OK let me clarify this. If I am a patient and we all go to the same meetings, protest, or what ever and I am a operator I still risk much more but the point is not that I risk that but instead the reason I do "Other Patients then myself". get it? its not a I do more thing its more like hey if I can do what I do with the array of medical issues that I have surely other patients can do at least half of what I do and we would have 500 min patients at any event............................................. ............... So lets just all instead of critizizing GLACA try to also make a difference because no matter what is said here let me make this clear "We will make a difference!" you can bank on that baby.

Originally Posted by stealthviper

This is correct. This is why the question as to wether collective operators are making outrageous profits is so meaningless. Most retailers would not tell you how much they make, either-it's simply none of your biz.

How much the donation rate is, now, that's another issue, not really related to the above. If a co-op owner hit the Super Lotto and decided to literally give away his entire inventory, how is that ANYONE'S biz but his, and why would you care, if the meds were good and FREE? I realize this is an extreme example, but some of the posters on here seem to need it.

It is certainly true that a co-op owner ALWAYS carries the risk of Federal prosecution, while patients hardly ever do.

It's simple: price is always there, and there is always somebody ready to undercut everbody else, and they might for a while, but usually end up stabilizing or closing. The ability to trust your chosen co-op is usually worth an extra $5, but hopefully your chosen collective has low donation rates as well. When you consider the price of gas lately, neighborhood places are starting to look really good. The patient must decide for him/herself what is important to him/her.

Peace,
sv

Many patients believe that operators are makin millions, let me tell ya you got the wrong answer. I don't believe that any person should ever ask another how much another makes but let me tell you with 400+ collectives in LA area I don't believe anyone is makin millions. The people makin the $$$$ that need to start showing some compassion is the kush growers specifically.

[Goldenstatecollective]

I happen to find my kush growers to be very compassionate !

[handscreate]

Originally Posted by LAMMJactivist

Many patients believe that operators are makin millions, let me tell ya you got the wrong answer. I don't believe that any person should ever ask another how much another makes but let me tell you with 400+ collectives in LA area I don't believe anyone is makin millions. The people makin the $$$$ that need to start showing some compassion is the kush growers specifically.

Often times it's the vendors who are not as compassionate (though the intentions might be good). It's just like retail, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. You have the manufacturer (grower) who rarely will sell direct to the retailer, but when they do a great deal can often be had. Most of the time they will sell to a distributer (middle-man) who may or may not re-sell to another middle-man prior to arriving at the retail level. Along the way everyone wants a piece of the pie, capitalism & risk being taken due to federal illegal staus all adds up, and before you know it, $4000 turns into $5200 some 3-6 people later.

I wish all vendors were the manufacturers, as it would help to keep costs down (less middle-men) and bring better product (less handling, trimming, kiefing) to the patients and dispensaries at more affordable donations.

Just look around. There are compassionate vendors and growers out there. They just need to come out of the woodworks. Hmm, the above poster might know something that can help you out . . . Food for thought

Originally Posted by handscreate

Often times it's the vendors who are not as compassionate (though the intentions might be good). It's just like retail, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. You have the manufacturer (grower) who rarely will sell direct to the retailer, but when they do a great deal can often be had. Most of the time they will sell to a distributer (middle-man) who may or may not re-sell to another middle-man prior to arriving at the retail level. Along the way everyone wants a piece of the pie, capitalism & risk being taken due to federal illegal staus all adds up, and before you know it, $4000 turns into $5200 some 3-6 people later.

I wish all vendors were the manufacturers, as it would help to keep costs down (less middle-men) and bring better product (less handling, trimming, kiefing) to the patients and dispensaries at more affordable donations.

Just look around. There are compassionate vendors and growers out there. They just need to come out of the woodworks. Hmm, the above poster might know something that can help you out . . . Food for thought

Thank you for pointing out what some of us can't. We as operators really do try our best (in general=of cousre there are those that capitolize) to bring the quality meds to the people at as low of cost as possible to keep our doors open. I believe before I leave this earth I will see a different day a day that could make a difference on all days that follow if those involved learn from it.

After reading this. I have one Question for you... Ever heard of R.I.C.O. ? Conspiracy to Commit? Remember Sale Cultivation and Distribution of Medical Marijuana is ILLEGAL under Federal Law. "Where two or More people gather to plan a criminal act is Conspiracy".

Under R.I.C.O. any member of a Group or Organization who commits an Criminal act, The Law says All members of the Group or Organization can be charged as if they committed the act themselves.

Before you start Passing out the Guideline for Safe Collective's / Cooperative's, You need to get the Federal Law changed or you expose ALL members of GLACA and their Accredited Dispenseries to Federal Charges.

I love the Idea of Self Policing the Medical Marijuana Community. Setting the Bar for Cleanliness and Access... But there is Still Ms. Tandy at D.E.A. to worry about 1st.

Originally Posted by Kushcollective2

After reading this. I have one Question for you... Ever heard of R.I.C.O. ? Conspiracy to Commit? Remember Sale Cultivation and Distribution of Medical Marijuana is ILLEGAL under Federal Law. "Where two or More people gather to plan a criminal act is Conspiracy".

Under R.I.C.O. any member of a Group or Organization who commits an Criminal act, The Law says All members of the Group or Organization can be charged as if they committed the act themselves.

Before you start Passing out the Guideline for Safe Collective's / Cooperative's, You need to get the Federal Law changed or you expose ALL members of GLACA and their Accredited Dispenseries to Federal Charges.

I love the Idea of Self Policing the Medical Marijuana Community. Setting the Bar for Cleanliness and Access... But there is Still Ms. Tandy at D.E.A. to worry about 1st.

You bring up a good point, however R.I.C.O does not apply to organizations that are politically based and do not profit from its action but instead attempt to change law and governmental policy much like the the teamsters and other organization's of the like. Do your homework my friend.

[Lucas Jackson]

Originally Posted by Cannamed of Northridge

2. Statement #2 is a contradiction. Would you be willing to pay an extra $5 per 1/8 for these services? The answer is in your statements #1 & 2-a resounding NO. Would capping at $25 be REAL compassion, or would you then complain about the Quality? USUALLY, you get what you pay for.
There is an old saying: "Quality, Price, Service... Pick TWO".

Lucas Jackson-A minor detail-Who will pay for this?

Increase membership fees if need be.

[Chinga_2_Madre]

Originally Posted by LAMMJactivist

You bring up a good point, however R.I.C.O does not apply to organizations that are politically based and do not profit from its action but instead attempt to change law and governmental policy much like the the teamsters and other organization's of the like. Do your homework my friend.

However, collusion and the Sherman Anti-trust laws are precariously in the balance. I am no attorney and have just hung around too many so by osmosis....anyway.

Our attorneys have advised us not to discuss price fixing or what we should charge on any forums for home inspectors because of obvious liability. If my associates and I banded together and agreed on a certain set of rules to benefit us in term of price, our asses would be grass (no pun intended).

I would be in contact (if not already) with legal counsel just to make sure any Standards of Practice or Code of Ethics do not violate the spirit of any laws mentioned. So far I do not see any hints but again, I am no attorney either.

Kudos because you guys are heading in the right direction.

[brian112460]

Restriction on Distribution. Collectives shall not provide cannabis to any person in an amount not consistent with
personal medical use.

Nondiscrimination. Collectives shall not discriminate on the basis of age, gender, race, national origin, sexual orientation,
physical disability, mental condition, or socio-economic status of any member.


so distribution shall be consistent with personel needs

and shall not discriminate on the basis of economic status of any member

add it up and what do you get

brian

[eclecticreason]

Jeez, go away for a day, and this thread gets even more ludicrous.

[Lucas Jackson]

Pass the expense on to who? The fact is that hiring a Board of Directors would probably be very affordable, as it is not a full time job. Steve Jobs sits on the Board of Directors for several companies, but they do not pay him a full time wage to do it. It is an advisory position. Instead of 25 dollars to join, make it 200 bucks (very reasonable) and with the 70 collectives or so involved there would be 14000 plus dollars. I am sure if you gave a person a thousand dollars to attend meetings once a month that it would be sufficient compensation and provide a more objective lens. Say you hired a group of 8 people. That would still leave 6000 dollars to buy stickers and put on a luncheon or two. Just an idea. As far as I am concerned it would seem that Lenny and the gang have their minds made up as to what direction they are heading, so who gives a shit about what me or a lowly couple of hundred patients think anyway.

[handscreate]

Originally Posted by Cannamed of Northridge

If we pass that expense on(as with ALL regulation expense such as Sales Tax, and Minimum Wage Law increases), then you complain that the prices are too high, conveniently forgetting the fact that (theoretically speaking)the Quality & Service have increased.

It makes sense to say this is the fee's were being raised to, oh let's say, $14000/club, but Lucas is saying increase it to $200/club. Is $200 really going to hurt your margins that much? If so, maybe you need an advisor to come in and teach your staff the value of the almighty dollar, and how to run the shop more effectively, or much better vendors/growers. Seriously. I can't think of any dispensary owner for whom $200 is going to put them in a financial position that will cause the costs of medicine to rise in any way.

A small fee like $200 to have a proper board of directors shouldn't hurt anyones margins. If it does, you might wanna re-think the whole owning a buisness thing. Might not be your cup of tea.

No need to start an argument, just stating facts

[handscreate]

Originally Posted by Cannamed of Northridge

I'm sure GLACA would love to have you as a director. The organization has decided to cap the BofDs salary at $100 so the Joining GLACA fee wouldn't increase. You can fly or drive down to SoCal once a month. Your expenses for airfare, rental car, hotel, food, etc.. and all the followup calls, reports & administrative duties is on YOUR time & wallet.

Don't try to pass all those personal expenses on to the organization because that's not compassionate.

Everyone, let's not push & shove. The line for the BofDs forms on the left.

Which left? Yours or mine? Cuz I'd do it, and I don't have to fly anywhere

[Capt. Zigzag]

Originally Posted by eclecticreason

Jeez, go away for a day, and this thread gets even more ludicrous.

Yes. Gelastic and preposterously incongruous.

-

Originally Posted by Capt. Zigzag

Yes. Gelastic and preposterously incongruous.

-

Captain, you are so droll! I'm positively gelastic over here!