[twitchee3]

Last night I got a call from a friend that needed a ride and my buddy and i stopped at a park to pick him up. We showed up and parked, and saw a group of shady people hop the fence of a school and book it through the park. A minute later a cop rolled around the corner in front of us and cruised up real slow with his lights off and parked just as another group of people were walking out of the park. My buddy was one of the people and the cops began questioning them RIGHT in front of my car. At this point, me and my friend are wondering whether or not we should just try to leave because we are always nervous of the police, but we stay in case he still needs a ride and because the cop is standing not 5 feet in front of my car. I heard him say i was there to give him a ride and the cop approached my window, so i politely rolled it down to speak with him. He immediately pointed out that my car smelled of marijuana, and i calmly explained that i was a valid prop 215 patient and i pulled out my license, OCBC card, photocopied rec, and an empty eith container that was in my center console. He ordered my friend and i out of the car, and we complied. We sat on the curb next to the kids and the cop proceeded to tear my car apart. He then called backup and they asked how to open my trunk, and i told them, but also said that "for the record, i DO NOT consent to a search," and the officer laughed and said something like, oh that doesn't matter. So in my trunk they found my bag of medicine with a few eiths, a few grams of hash, and the remnants of a gram of hash oil, my scale, and a few empty bags and containers. They pulled out my concentrate container and asked what the glass container of hash and vile of hash oil was and i confidently explained to them what it was and where i got it. They then told me that the ventura county sheriff's department does not recognize concentrated marijuana under prop 215, and explained that i was under arrest and i was put in handcuffs. I was put in the back of the car and taken to the local police station, where they charged me with possession of concentrated marijuana and possession of concentrated marijuana for sale. I was arrested around 12:30 A.M., and left the local department around 3:30 A.M. for county. 24 hours later i was released on $20,000 bail, but, upon opening my bag of personal possessions which they tell you NOT TO OPEN UNTIL YOU LEAVE THE BUILDING, i noticed that my brand new $400 iPhone is MISSING, which i observed the arresting officer put into a bag at the local pd with my wallet which, WAS RETURNED TO ME IN THE BAG AT COUNTY, and that was after he even ASKED ME how to turn it off when it rang on his desk and i gave him detailed instructions. My phone is STILL ON because it rings when i call it, but county claims they have NO RECORD of receiving a phone with my intake, WTF!!! Not only that, because of the charges, they also booked several hundred dollars in cash from my wallet as "evidence" along with my medicine bag and its contents. My first court date is in 4 days, i'm consulting an attorney tomorrow, but is THERE ANY ADVICE any of you WT'ers that have been here before can give me?

It was extremely unnerving to go from casually picking up my friend, just parked on the side of the road, to locked up on two felony charges, i mean??!!!

By the way, my buddy and his girlfriend who we were picking up were 18, but the other kids they were walking with were minors, so the cops were "suspicious" of us for that, but I had never even met the kids before. The cops grilled my friend who had been in the car with me, but they let him drive my car home with my permission, after they COMPLETELY WRECKED the inside, i mean it was tossed.

Anyway, thanks for any advice or thoughts you guys might have!

[Big K R]

Join ASA. go to safeaccessnow.org. I'm sure they can help you. I believe hash under 215 is considered the same as mmj as the law goes.

[for20]

Most likely it will get thrown out by the D.A. (the police only recommend charges - the D.A. looks at the law and decides whether or not to file). If the D.A. does file it'll probably cost you 10-15K to defend yourself (depending on the scope) but the judge will probably throw it out. There are precidents on record. That is, as long as you didn't have lots of small baggies alongside the eighths and the scale, and your several hunderd dollars in cash was all rolled up in a wad of $1s, $5s, and $10s, IYKWIM. If they file for selling to minors, you've got your hands full.

I believe having/showing the empty container in the front of your car, combined with the smell (from the container?) gave them the right to search. Never volunteer anything. Our rights may be protected by the courts (in most cases), but by the police? Some times yes, some times no.

I've heard of people in your situation who simply got out of their car, intentially locking the keys inside. The police will not break into a locked car to search. After the police questioned them and finally left, they simply called a tow truck to get the car opened - far less expensive and inconvenient than time in jail and court...

As far as your phone goes, what a drag! Make sure you file a police report. If you purchased it on a credit card you may have Purchase Protection insurance.

Good luck with the lawyer!

[weedtracker]

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[Ivy]

Originally Posted by for20

I've heard of people in your situation who simply got out of their car, intentionally locking the keys inside. The police will not break into a locked car to search. After the police questioned them and finally left, they simply called a tow truck to get the car opened - far less expensive and inconvenient than time in jail and court...

Good luck with the lawyer!

That's interesting, I've never even thought of doing that. I wonder though if it varies from county to county. For example in Riverside county home of our beloved Riverside County Sheriffs Dept. Here our sheriffs will shoot an ATV rider instead of issuing a 300 dollar ticket. After unloading his entire service pistol he thankfully never hit anyone Serious it happened in Canyon Lake this past August, on BLM land no less.

So, I'm thinking that not ALL police will just drive away without busting out the car windows. But it's worth a shot depending on what your carrying and where you happen to be located at the time of the stop.

As for your phone? If it's insured you're out 50 dollars...if not, another lesson in how life sucks.

It's sad to say but for the *most part,* the police stopped being our friend after we turned about 12-13 years old.

I hope all the best for you.... Please let us know what's going on.

Much love and peace
Ivy

[silvercloud]

Originally Posted by for20

Most likely it will get thrown out by the D.A. (the police only recommend charges - the D.A. looks at the law and decides whether or not to file). If the D.A. does file it'll probably cost you 10-15K to defend yourself (depending on the scope) but the judge will probably throw it out. There are precidents on record. That is, as long as you didn't have lots of small baggies alongside the eighths and the scale, and your several hunderd dollars in cash was all rolled up in a wad of $1s, $5s, and $10s, IYKWIM. If they file for selling to minors, you've got your hands full.

I believe having/showing the empty container in the front of your car, combined with the smell (from the container?) gave them the right to search. Never volunteer anything. Our rights may be protected by the courts (in most cases), but by the police? Some times yes, some times no.

I've heard of people in your situation who simply got out of their car, intentially locking the keys inside. The police will not break into a locked car to search. After the police questioned them and finally left, they simply called a tow truck to get the car opened - far less expensive and inconvenient than time in jail and court...

As far as your phone goes, what a drag! Make sure you file a police report. If you purchased it on a credit card you may have Purchase Protection insurance.

Good luck with the lawyer!

Good tip re : locked keys in car ; might also ,keep xtra key ,magnetized under fender for 'any' locked out situation ,avoiding towtruck cost/delay ... that is all .....

[Au_Hunter]

I'm sad to hear of your troubles twitchee3...

You have received good suggestions that will help but the Attorney is First and formost important step to take.

We can guess about proper search, probable cause, etc. but find an expert please.

I also realize it is too late but there are many posts about how to transport meds, camoflage and conceal meds along with discussions of keeping old med containers.

I'd have been all over you too if I were an leo under those circumstances.

Suspecious activity at a school after hours when most burglaries and/or vandalism occurs, people avoiding the patrol officer hop the fence into the park to flee...

You, parked and waiting for someone who may or may not have been involved in a crime at the school... Can you say accessory?

Unless you reside in your vehicle and have no place safer to keep your meds you must learn to only carry what meds are necessary for your needs and never transport used containers and/or a scale.

Even with a valid Dr.'s Rec you had every indication that you were dealing out of your vehicle and within the proximity of a school to boot!

I'm sure I don't need to point this out as you probably have already considered how you contributed to this problem and I'm making this point more for those who read your post to stimulate thought.

We are all targets in the MMJ community. How we comport ourselves reflects upon every member of our community, both good and bad and the media, politicians and drug prohibitionists need instances like this to turn back the clock on MMJ.

Just because we possess a valid Dr. Rec doesn't mean that we are just like everyone else, not yet anyway.

Please be a positive reflection upon all others. Make that your goal if you do nothing else for the movement.

Good luck for a positive outcome with your case.

[kooshnugz]

That's horrible. All for being a good buddy and coming to pick up a homie.
You should not have had your scale though, or any extra baggies.
You're lucky they didn't slap on a trafficking charge.
Best of luck to you.

[Medpatient]

Well hopefully an attorney will be able to help you with this but you fucked up plain and simple. Here is directly from SB420 regarding how you fucked up.

11362.79. Nothing in this article shall authorize a qualified patient or person with an identification card to engage in the smoking of medical marijuana under any of the following circumstances:

(a) In any place where smoking is prohibited by law.

(b) In or within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school, recreation center, or youth center, unless the medical use occurs within a residence.

(c) On a schoolbus.

(d) While in a motor vehicle that is being operated.

(e) While operating a boat.

The officer walked up and smelt marijuana insinuating that you were smoking on school grounds or in the near area plus a scale, jesus man leave that shit at home what is the point of carrying around a scale with you.

Hopefully things will go good for you but I can guarentee if you get a DA that knows anything about the law they will try to stick this to you. Good luck.

[stanley]

First, I am SO sorry you are having to go thru this.

Take the time to take care of your health, dont let this incident make you sicker by worrying too much.

AS quickly as you can, get an attorney who specializes in California Medical Marijuana cases... And be sure whoever you retain is in contact with the ASA, in hopes that they can help provide CURRENT case law.... it is CONSTANTLY changing as cases like yours are tried all over California.

If you can, and if you dont mind, AND IF YOUR ATTORNEY SAYS IT IS COOL, (dont do ANYTHING without clearing it thru your attorney, YOUR FREEDOM IS AT STAKE!) as you go thru the process, share it with us, so we can LEARN from your misfortune.

Best of luck thru this whole thing!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

For the rest of us:

As Medical Marijuana users, we are all somewhat vulnerable to this kind of abuse by Law Enforcement Officers. Our actions can sometimes make us even more vulnerable.

ALL OF US MAKE "TACTICAL" MISTAKES SOMETIMES in defending ourselves from LEO. It happens, and the best we can do is attempt to learn from it, and try to not put ourselves into these situations....

So, for the sake of those trying to avoid stuff like this:

If at all possible, dont transport your meds in your car except when you bring them home from the dispensary.

If you MUST travel WITH your meds, take ONLY what you need for the time away from home.

When you do have your meds in the car, ALWAYS transport them in the locked trunk of your car.

To avoid the appearance of "sales" DO NOT KEEP extra baggies, or containers, or scales with your meds.

Scales are a tough subject, some folks like to check the weights on their purchases. (this is one reason I wont go where they sell pre-packaged meds, if I watch them weigh it, I dont NEED to carry scales, and the cops cant easily hassle me for sales)

Never consent to a search of your vehicle.

Never offer any "extra" information or explanations. Be polite, but answer only DIRECT questions as you must.

Remember, this cop would probably run into a burning building to save your kid or your grandmother, so try to remember he just does NOT UNDERSTAND MMJ. It wont hurt you to be polite, and might just help you out....

Never smoke or medicate in your vehicle. This is tough for some folks, but it gives LEO shaky probable cause for a search, if they "smell" it...

All California MMJ patients need to "plan" for these encounters.

Not all of us can be white middle aged suit and tie types driving a four door family sedan... So, do what you can to NOT provide any incentives for LEO to give you any extra scrutiny...

Remember, your Medical Marijuana Recommendation only provides you with an affirmative defense against prosecution. MARIJUANA is still illegal, even in California.

[Medpatient]

Originally Posted by stanley

First, I am SO sorry you are having to go thru this.

Take the time to take care of your health, dont let this incident make you sicker by worrying too much.

AS quickly as you can, get an attorney who specializes in California Medical Marijuana cases... And be sure whoever you retain is in contact with the ASA, in hopes that they can help provide CURRENT case law.... it is CONSTANTLY changing as cases like yours are tried all over California.

If you can, and if you dont mind, AND IF YOUR ATTORNEY SAYS IT IS COOL, (dont do ANYTHING without clearing it thru your attorney, YOUR FREEDOM IS AT STAKE!) as you go thru the process, share it with us, so we can LEARN from your misfortune.

Best of luck thru this whole thing!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

For the rest of us:

As Medical Marijuana users, we are all somewhat vulnerable to this kind of abuse by Law Enforcement Officers. Our actions can sometimes make us even more vulnerable.

ALL OF US MAKE "TACTICAL" MISTAKES SOMETIMES in defending ourselves from LEO. It happens, and the best we can do is attempt to learn from it, and try to not put ourselves into these situations....

So, for the sake of those trying to avoid stuff like this:

If at all possible, dont transport your meds in your car except when you bring them home from the dispensary.

If you MUST travel WITH your meds, take ONLY what you need for the time away from home.

When you do have your meds in the car, ALWAYS transport them in the locked trunk of your car.

To avoid the appearance of "sales" DO NOT KEEP extra baggies, or containers, or scales with your meds.

Scales are a tough subject, some folks like to check the weights on their purchases. (this is one reason I wont go where they sell pre-packaged meds, if I watch them weigh it, I dont NEED to carry scales, and the cops cant easily hassle me for sales)

Never consent to a search of your vehicle.

Never offer any "extra" information or explanations. Be polite, but answer only DIRECT questions as you must.

Remember, this cop would probably run into a burning building to save your kid or your grandmother, so try to remember he just does NOT UNDERSTAND MMJ. It wont hurt you to be polite, and might just help you out....

Never smoke or medicate in your vehicle. This is tough for some folks, but it gives LEO shaky probable cause for a search, if they "smell" it...

All California MMJ patients need to "plan" for these encounters.

Not all of us can be white middle aged suit and tie types driving a four door family sedan... So, do what you can to NOT provide any incentives for LEO to give you any extra scrutiny...

Remember, your Medical Marijuana Recommendation only provides you with an affirmative defense against prosecution. MARIJUANA is still illegal, even in California.

everything you said is very true, but lets not forget our own negligence to what the law says is no excuse either. Know your laws first and most problems can be avoided.

[twitchee3]

Thanks for all the replies guys, i really appreciate it.

Just to make things clear, regardless of what the LEO's are going to write in their report, I was not medicated at the time, i had no illegal substances (prop 215 or not) in the interior of the vehicle (all in the trunk), and i had not medicated in my vehicle for over 24 hours. Also, i was parked on the street in a residential neighborhood next to the parking lot for a PARK which happened to be near a school, but i was clearly at the park (past midnight on a saturday night too), although i know my proximity will probably be an issue in court.

Oh, and i might add that through the WHOLE incident, i was COMPLETELY polite and compliant with the officers, i even called him 'sir' as he tightened the handcuffs around my wrists and placed me under arrest!



Thank you all so much for the support and advice, and i will be sure to update this thread as much as possible per my lawyer's advice.

Just curious, but if there's anyone who's dealt with any similar issue in the ventura county courts, please let me know how they treated you and how their attitude toward prop 215 patients is, because i would really like to know.

Anyways, thanks again guys, your really a big help at this point, i can really use words of encouragement like yours!


Peace, love, and STAY SAFE PLEASE!

[Au_Hunter]

Excellent post Stanley.

Can't rep ya till I spread it around more but you said everything I wanted to bring up.

You also pointed out that those of us who lack a trunk can use a military ammunition box for transporting meds from coop to home. Very smart!

BTW, the small boxes are a pain! I don't pick up much over a 1/2 to 3/4's of a z but when bagged and stapled three average containers won't fit without removing from said bag...

Not anything I'm about to do while in any parking lot, anywhere so I'll need to use a larger ammo box.

[kobe2f5]

dam that really ...really sucks man...and i was hanging out with you the same day too....I hope that you can get off of this real soon bro

[Au_Hunter]

Originally Posted by twitchee3

Thanks for all the replies guys, i really appreciate it.

Just to make things clear, regardless of what the LEO's are going to write in their report, I was not medicated at the time, i had no illegal substances (prop 215 or not) in the interior of the vehicle (all in the trunk), and i had not medicated in my vehicle for over 24 hours. Also, i was parked on the street in a residential neighborhood next to the parking lot for a PARK which happened to be near a school, but i was clearly at the park (past midnight on a saturday night too), although i know my proximity will probably be an issue in court.

Oh, and i might add that through the WHOLE incident, i was COMPLETELY polite and compliant with the officers, i even called him 'sir' as he tightened the handcuffs around my wrists and placed me under arrest!



Thank you all so much for the support and advice, and i will be sure to update this thread as much as possible per my lawyer's advice.

Just curious, but if there's anyone who's dealt with any similar issue in the ventura county courts, please let me know how they treated you and how their attitude toward prop 215 patients is, because i would really like to know.

Anyways, thanks again guys, your really a big help at this point, i can really use words of encouragement like yours!


Peace, love, and STAY SAFE PLEASE!

This may help as it is a very current crime and article dated October 30, 2007

http://www.venturacountystar.com/new...-nb4briefs-fc/

Two men posing as deputies steal pot

"Some Oak View residents called the Sheriff's Department early Monday to report that a group of men pretending to be sheriff's deputies had stolen their marijuana plants, authorities said.

The residents of the home in the 100 block of Valley View Drive were allowed to possess the plants under Proposition 215, which legalized limited medical use of marijuana in California, Sheriff's Department Capt. Jerry Hernandez said. The amount of marijuana the residents were growing fell within the legal limit, he said.
Two marijuana plants were stolen by robbers who broke into the home about 1:35 a.m. Monday, authorities said.

The residents reported that the men claimed to be deputies and ordered everyone in the home to get down while they took the plants, Hernandez said."

They did not arrest the MMJ grower.

But from your original post you stated,

They pulled out my concentrate container and asked what the glass container of hash and vile of hash oil was and i confidently explained to them what it was and where i got it. They then told me that the Ventura county sheriff's department does not recognize concentrated marijuana under prop 215, and explained that i was under arrest and i was put in handcuffs.

So the article only shows that VCS do recognize some parts of Prop 215 yet your dilemma is concentrates.

You may need test cases from other counties to demonstrate the capriciousness or erratic and unequal application of the law between counties as the law must be consistently applied.

I am not aware of any cases dealing with concentrates but if any legal patient has not been convicted for possession after being charged you may have something.

It may seem odd to many that expect all law enforcement agencies to immediately comply with new laws but it doesn't work that way.

Each District Attorney is the end decision maker on dismissing cases. Each municipality has one.

Each law enforcement agency operates under their own understanding of the law unless and until SOP's are changed from the top at the direction of their chief attorney, the DA.

The DA remains constantly updated on new case law and then advises the department who then changes policy.

These are general statements only, there are variations depending upon your location including Ventura County and are for a general understanding of how changing laws effect us on the streets.

Au

[Slip9901]

i got caught for hash too...not fun man...best of luck

[AliceinBudland]

Wow, talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sure hope everything works out the best for you. These days, I guess a park is not the best place to pick up your friends.

Much Love,
Alice

[Slip9901]

Has anything happened with this? I have my court date coming up for similar charges....

[Huey69]

Seeing this thread now...I'm interested as well. I live in Ventura, and I love my hash(although, this usually never leaves the house once I have it home), and I'd hate to get booked for something like having hash on me :-/

EDIT: This is why when I pick up my friend from the airport this week, I'm going to have him drive. Just in case...

[HappaGuy]

Originally Posted by stanley

...

Remember, your Medical Marijuana Recommendation only provides you with an affirmative defense against prosecution. MARIJUANA is still illegal, even in California.

Excellent and helpful post Stanley.

Please note however, that while the 1996 CUA provided only for an affirmative defense in court after the cops have kidnapped and terrorized you, SB420 specifically addressed that problem and stated that qualified MMJ users will not be arrested in the first place.

• It stops arrests -- not just prosecutions -- of qualified individuals for possession, transportation, delivery or cultivation up to a very minimal level of 8 oz and 6 plants per patient (that could arguably be hash or hash oil, which would be equivalent to more; I'm not sure what it does about tinctures, which have a lot of liquid weight) 11362.71(e)

Source: http://www.weedtracker.com/forums/sh...ays-10279.html

This is not to imply that cops follow the law. (Lots of good people become cops, only to be turned or weeded out by a bad system.)

Remember, we MMJ users look like easy court pay to cops. An easy bust and full pay for sitting around a courtroom for a day, off the streets and out of harms way...we look simply scrumptious to them.

And of course there are many ways a qualified MMJ patient can disqualify himself. The law goes on at length about that, as posted above.

We all must protect ourselves by (a) knowing our MMJ laws and remaining well in compliance with their letter and spirit and (b) expect that LEOs will not necessarily follow them.

[camcam]

well all u have 2 do is use the h2o extract method. if no chemicals are used its legal. :)

Originally Posted by camcam

well all u have 2 do is use the h2o extract method. if no chemicals are used its legal. :)

I was just wonding if you will do the sentence or pay the fines for those that follow your advice?

Jus' wonderin'

camcam, concentrated cannabis is concentrated cannabis no matter how it's made.

[Medpatient]

Originally Posted by camcam

well all u have 2 do is use the h2o extract method. if no chemicals are used its legal. :)

please refrain from handing out bunk advice as this. As the last poster stated concentrated cannabis is concentrated cannabis, and if you dont think so, my arrest for hash was for water extracted hash.

[camster626]

Originally Posted by twitchee3

is THERE ANY ADVICE any of you WT'ers that have been here before can give me?

Dont drive around with meds in your car... in separate containers with a scale...thats just begging for trouble...Get a good lawyer...and whatever you do...DO NOT...I REPEAT...DO NOT LISTEN TO CamCam...

Peace-