[CannaBandit]

Copied from ASA Email list:

Hello, ASA Members and Friends. We will be having a special discussion about effective protesting and civil disobedience at the the October meeting of the Los Angeles Chapter of Americans for Safe Access (ASA) tomorrow. The DEA and LAPD assault on patients’ access in Los Angeles is I full swing, and we want to have the tools we need to push them back. We have seen some great resistance following the raids in Hollywood and downtown. Let’s step it up a notch and put them on the defensive. We will also be discussing the next steps after last week’s successful mobilization to the Governor’s office. Everyone is welcome, so come on out and bring your friends and loved ones! Refreshments will be served.

What: LA-ASA Meeting & Protest/Civil Disobedience Training

When: 1 PM * Saturday, October 20, 2007

Where: Patient ID Center, 470 S. San Vicente Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90048 (Cross street is Drexel, between Wilshire & 3rd St.)

Map & Transit Info: http://www.ASAaction.org

See you all tomorrow!

__________________
Don Duncan
California Campaign Director
Americans for Safe Access
www.AmericansForSafeAccess.org <http://www.americansforsafeaccess.org/>

Americans for Safe Access (ASA) is the largest national member-based organization of patients, medical professionals, scientists and concerned citizens promoting safe and legal access to cannabis for therapeutic use and research.

Are you an ASA member? http://www.AmericansforSafeAccessNow.org/donate

Los Angeles Office
7211 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite 800
West Hollywood, CA 90046
P: 323-882-6766 F: 323-882-6263

[FREEkaya]

so i guessin i'll see you there cannabani...

[CannaBandit]

Originally Posted by FREEkaya

so i guessin i'll see you there cannabani...

Being on house arrest it's tough to get a pass to go out into the real world. But, tomorrow I'm going to be in LA to look for a new location to relocate my recently closed co-op and the clock is running short of time. But I plan on stopping by if I'm not stuck in traffic. I'd like to say thanks to Don, he helped me get started. I'd love to meet everybody else who can attend. Hope to see you there!

[FREEkaya]

well hopefully all works out for you and maybe see you another time...

[labrat]

Originally Posted by FREEkaya

well hopefully all works out for you and maybe see you another time...

how many people showed up!! lab rat tried to make it but had to feed the dog !! plus i dont like to stop traffic or get into civil disobendince for such a cause !!! did ya pass the hat ??

[squatter420]

"...or get into civil disobendince for such a cause !!!"

So you quit smoking pot? If you aren't one of the seven Federal patients that get MMJ shipped to you in a tin then you are either just a law violator or you are involved in one of the largest civil disobedience actions in history.

[labrat]

Originally Posted by squatter420

"...or get into civil disobendince for such a cause !!!"

So you quit smoking pot? If you aren't one of the seven Federal patients that get MMJ shipped to you in a tin then you are either just a law violator or you are involved in one of the largest civil disobedience actions in history.

actually it no of your buis what i do !!! you sure ask a lot of questions!!! lab rat

[stanley]

Originally Posted by squatter420

"...or get into civil disobendince for such a cause !!!"

So you quit smoking pot? If you aren't one of the seven Federal patients that get MMJ shipped to you in a tin then you are either just a law violator or you are involved in one of the largest civil disobedience actions in history.

I knew exactly what Labby meant here, as did everyone else who read this.

I dont mean to put words in Labrat's mouth, but he has been pretty clear on this I think.

He doesnt want to see people laying down in the streets pissing off the very people who will have to vote in OUR FAVOR to keep MMJ.

Neither do I.

If this is the direction that ASA is going I too will withdraw my support, as I do not believe such actions are in the best interests of MMJ.

Labby tends to say exactly what he thinks. Sometimes some folks cannot handle so much honesty coming at them all at once....

Are you one of those folks?

[squatter420]

"...Sometimes some folks cannot handle so much honesty coming at them all at once....

Are you one of those folks?"

Nope, but in the time I've been around I have seen a few people, Labby included that seem to me to always be aligning themselves with the DEA and against the people that have stepped up to build a MMJ movement.

If it is certain tactics that bother you then that is a worthy debate but generalized divisivness is agent provacatuer type behavior imo.

[CannaBandit]

Civil disobedience is the active refusal to obey certain laws, demands and commands of a government or of an occupying power without resorting to physical violence. It is one of the primary tactics of nonviolent resistance. In its most nonviolent form (known as ahimsa or satyagraha) it could be said that it is compassion in the form of respectful disagreement.

Civil disobedience has been used in nonviolent resistance movements in India (Gandhi's social welfare campaigns and campaigns to speed up independence from the British Empire), in South Africa in the fight against apartheid, in the American Civil Rights Movement and in peace movements worldwide.

The American author Henry David Thoreau pioneered the modern theory behind this practice in his 1849 essay Civil Disobedience, originally titled "Resistance to Civil Government". The driving idea behind the essay was that of self-reliance, and how one is in morally good standing as long as one can "get off another man's back"; so one doesn't have to physically fight the government, but one must not support it or have it support one (if one is against it). This essay has had a wide influence on many later practitioners of civil disobedience. In the essay, Thoreau explained his reasons for having refused to pay taxes as an act of protest against slavery and against the Mexican-American War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

[stanley]

Originally Posted by squatter420

Nope, but in the time I've been around I have seen a few people, Labby included that seem to me to always be aligning themselves with the DEA and against the people that have stepped up to build a MMJ movement.

If it is certain tactics that bother you then that is a worthy debate but generalized divisivness is agent provacatuer type behavior imo.

Bullshit!

Bullshit again damn it!

You need to watch your words carefully.

For you to even remotely imply that LABRAT is "aligning" himself with the DEA is TOTAL BULLSHIT!

You need to sit back and read this website a couple more times if your comprehension is that low.

Divisiveness?

You come on here maligning one of the best loved, and well known members of the community?

What balls!

Who the F are you anyway?

Montana? Really?

Right now, you have pretty much destroyed ANY CREDIBILITY in my mind. As far as I can see you aint got nothing of value to say here.

Yes. And it came very close to breaking a rule (2.9.2)

I think Stanley put it best: please chose your words more carefully.

[9121Ho]

I wanted to go to the LA-ASA Meeting, but...there are no buses from where I'm at on Saturday, and, the night before, my son munched the front end of the truck I recently gave him. So, no transpo whatsoever.

I wanted to go to see what they had to say.

Laying in front of a car is counter productive. But, having an organized mmj movement with continued consumption and continued political pressure is key to its success.

And, the Montana guy is new. Montana guys see things differently than California guys. So, don't go too hard on the Montana guy. I saw a Montana movie last night, Knockaround Guys, with Vin Diesel. Yo, Montana guy, did you see Knockaround Guys?

Anyways...a couple of buses to ASA meetings and rallies would be cool.

[freedom first]

civil disobedience
civil disobedience, refusal to obey a law or follow a policy believed to be unjust. Practitioners of civil disobediance basing their actions on moral right and usually employ the nonviolent technique of passive resistance in order to bring wider attention to the injustice. Risking punishment, such as violent retaliatory acts or imprisonment, they attempt to bring about changes in the law. In the modern era, civil disobedience has been used in such events as street demonstrations, marches, the occupying of buildings, and strikes and other forms of economic resistance.

The philosophy behind civil disobedience goes back to classical and biblical sources. Perhaps its most influential exposition can be found in Henry David Thoreau's On the Duty of Civil Disobedience (1849), in which he claims that the individual, who grants the state its power in the first place, must follow the dictates of conscience in opposing unjust laws. Thoreau's work had an enormous impact on Mohandas Gandhi and the techniques that he employed first to gain Indian rights in South Africa and later to win independence for India. Gandhi developed the notion of satyagraha [Sanskrit: holding to truth], acts of civil disobedience marked by Indian tradition and his own high moral standards and sense of self-discipline. Attracting a huge number of followers from the Indian public, Gandhi was able to use the technique as an effective political tool and play a key role in bringing about the British decision to end colonial rule of his homeland. His was one of the few relatively unqualified successes in the history of civil disobedience.

The philosophy and tactics of civil disobedience have been used by Quakers and other religious groups, the British labor movement, suffragists, feminists, adherents of prohibition, pacifists and other war resisters (see conscientious objector), supporters of the disabled, and a wide variety of other dissenters. In the United States, the most outstanding theoretician and practitioner of civil disobedience was civil-rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. During the 1950s and 60s he achieved international fame by leading numerous peaceful marches, boycotts, and sit-ins. Like Gandhi, he was jailed several times. The beatings, mass arrests, and even killings of civil-rights demonstrators pledged to nonviolent civil disobedience were important factors in swaying public opinion and in the ultimate passage of new civil-rights legislation (see integration). Civil disobedience in the United States traditionally has been associated with those on the left of the political spectrum, as were most participants in the anti–Vietnam War movement, but toward the end of the 20th cent. the strategy also began to be employed by those on the right, for example, by those involved in confrontational but nonviolent antiabortion activities.

[Lou Weed]

I'd be all for having a carpool to ASA meetings. If you can find another like-minded individual to drive or get in touch with someone willing to come your way, go for it. It's always worth going the distance for somebody who wants to be there as far as I'm concerned.

The meeting was productive. Nobody's going to be stopping traffic; it's a nuisance to the public and doesn't further our plight. Instead, we discussed being effective. For instance, how to be of use as a first-responder, which not everybody's cut out for, but it's crucial information for those who are.

9021Ho, I'm often in the TO and Moorpark areas in the evenings.
Driving south to 405 and Sunset area then ID center for ASA meetings

If there is a meeting at the Patients ID center, it's likely I can take 2-3 passengers for ASA activities. When I can use the PM system, I will contact you.

Please don't "throw out the baby with the used bathwater" when it come s to ASA. No one else is really doing much for patients' rights. ASA is what it is. Still ASA does a ton of good. Plus it's better to do something positive if your health permits. Meeting are fun as well.

Better being on a team than on the sideline watching imo.

[blackcolumbian]

I recently attended an open community discussion on mmj. Many of the attendees were concerned non-patients. I believe most of these people could easily be swayed in our direction. There were only a few points that went unsatisfactorily answered.

Why is mmj not prescribed with limitations?, Where does the medication come from?, How do we know its not coming from illegitimate "drug dealers"? Why have I heard how easy it is to attain a doctors refferall? Whats stopping these clubs from allowing non-patients from entering? Who governs or monitors these facilities?

These were some of the questions I jotted down quickly that I felt weren't answered adequately. Some hard questions some not. All important to the non-mmj people.

Maybe if we spent some time addressing these issues in the face of the general public civil disobedience would be less important. Maybe not.

[9121Ho]

Originally Posted by buzzy

9021Ho, I'm often in the TO and Moorpark areas in the evenings.
Driving south to 405 and Sunset area then ID center for ASA meetings

If there is a meeting at the Patients ID center, it's likely I can take 2-3 passengers for ASA activities. When I can use the PM system, I will contact you.

Please don't "throw out the baby with the used bathwater" when it come s to ASA. No one else is really doing much for patients' rights. ASA is what it is. Still ASA does a ton of good. Plus it's better to do something positive if your health permits. Meeting are fun as well.

Better being on a team than on the sideline watching imo.

Cool! Please keep me posted. I'm off of the 23/101.

And yes, people may not agree with ASA, but at least they are organized and fighting their cause and not backing down and they are reaching out to "the community". Hopefully, they won't cause a riot or do something dumb like lay down in front of a car.

[freedom first]

This is a picture of an ASA "Civil Disobedience" Action back in the days at the Health and Human Services Department in Washington D.C. As you can see, they are blocking an entrance to the building to make a definite statement, not blocking traffic in Van Nuys, so realize that there are professional and courteous ways to express ones opinion without losing community support. I believe noone was arrested, so please do expand your mind a bit folks.

[squatter420]

Originally Posted by Zelig

Yes. And it came very close to breaking a rule (2.9.2)

I think Stanley put it best: please chose your words more carefully.

I chose my words with great care. I am trying to convey an idea.

First, that merely being a registered patient IS an act of civil disobedience in violation of Federal Law.

Next that, blocking cars in the public streets is a very narrow viewpoint of what civil disobedience actually is.

Third, that taking the side of LE over supporting fellow activists is very much the type of tactic that agent provocateurs exhibit repeatedly in movement after movement.

Finally, don't let the Montana thing distract you. Until four months ago I lived and worked on the MMJ movement in CA.

Now I think I have kept a wide margin between what I am saying and rule 2.9.2 and I did read it.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by freedom first

civil disobedience
civil disobedience, refusal to obey a law or follow a policy believed to be unjust.

and blah blah blah....

Please.

I was probably taking part in political acts of civil disobedience before you were born.

I earned my stripes in the streets of Berkeley in the sixties.

Dont presume to "educate" me about civil disobedience, it only shows how ignorant you are about your audience.

Originally Posted by squatter420

Now I think I have kept a wide margin between what I am saying and rule 2.9.2 and I did read it.

In this post, yes, in your previous post, no. I am the one that decides who is pushing the envelope. If it were up to users to decide if they are out of line, well gee, they have a word for that:

Monkeyfuck.

Don't say other users align themselves with the DEA. No one wants to read what you can't prove.

[squatter420]

Take the side of.... Encourage the actions of... Be openly supportive of....

I'll let you decide the best wording but the thrust of what I am saying is undiminished.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by squatter420

Take the side of.... Encourage the actions of... Be openly supportive of....

I'll let you decide the best wording but the thrust of what I am saying is undiminished.

Repeating lies does not make them true.

Here's the thrust of my thinking...

You waltz in here, attack long standing upright members of this community, skate by the rules on the narrowest of margins and then expect to be respected.

See if you can get someone to buy you a clue, as you dont seem to be able to get one for yourself.

Attacking folks here that dont toe YOUR LINE is no way to win friends and be a positive influence.

Montana huh?

Hey, does anybody know, do they locate witness protection folks in Montana?

[freedom first]

This thread has gone WAY off topic....ASA is good for the community...take it or leave it....End of story.